Can we just fix Druids?

Classes Druid
1

There was a change implemented a bit ago (Some time around Legion/WoD I think?), that changed how druid forms worked when shifting out.
It changed how we play the class entirely by adding a cooldown to any form that we leave.
There were little concerns in PvE, as not much use was utilized from shifting in and out of form, asides from the obvious of removing a root or slow.

This change had much more drastic effects in PvP, and altered the playstyle of the class. With how many classes are in the game right now that have better slows than druids (feral specifically), and can constantly and consistently re-apply them faster than we can even remove them with shifting, it’s made the entire process feel extremely slow and clunky.
Even pre-nerf this was an issue, but not too big of an annoyance since shifting out and in a form would only waste one global cooldown, now you waste about 2 or so, one for the cooldown, or global cooldown if you shifted into another form, and one for the shift back into your desired form.

This change, the cooldown, effectively doubled (or more) the amount of downtime we have in-between clearing roots/slows when attempting to play the class, be it kiting, flag running, chasing someone down, etc.
The additional time really adds up over time, and you start to feel just how clunky and slow the class has become.
It feels like the team knew this, which to my assumption is why they implemented some ways to get back into form immediately, be it dash, tiger’s fury, berserk, etc.
However, having to waste major cooldowns just for a minor ability, the ability to instantly shift in and out of form, seems very wrong.

This is something that has been a part of the druid class since the very beginning, over a decade of WoW, druids have had the ability to remove slows and roots from shifting in and out of form (with the exception of Cata, which also had negative feedback on the change), and after the introduction of Classic vanilla, The Burning Crusade, and Wrath of the Lich King, it gave us the chance to get a feel for how fun and fluid the class used to be.

It’s honestly been a blast enjoying the past iterations of druid again, back when it was fun, when it wasn’t hampered by this change that gutted the classes ability to mitigate certain crowd control abilities efficiently.

I guess what I’m asking is just to simply revert the change, revert the added cooldown when leaving forms. Druid is all I play, and all I have played for the 13 or so years I’ve played wow, and I haven’t enjoyed retail WoW at all since that was added as it’s been such a hindrance to the fluidity of the class, it really has made it feel a lot more clunky.

7 Likes
2

There is nothing to fix. Power shifting was completely broken and needed to be removed.

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3

for pvp, yes.
For PvE, unnecessary (considering we have a very counterproductive class tree).

4

Sure, but I guarantee they’re not going to put power shifting in for pve and disable it for pvp.

5

If they can do it, as well as several changes to the other classes.
They’re just lazy (they practically created the PvP aura).

6

Blizz should just give Druids more abilities that are baseline for every spec. For example, Moonfire should become usable in every form, so that way Blizz can make class talents centered around moonfire

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7

Power shifter was removed due to talents that were given to shifting into bear form. You would heal for a small percent every time you shifted into bear and the healing added up to be way too much. Druids were the mobile class from the start. Now that bear healing has been removed, I would say revert the GCD of shifting. Too many classes have gap closers and not to mention most classes now have root removal on a single GCD and go right back to damage. Where as druids now have to spend 2 GCD’s and then go back to dying. GCD’s add up people.

2 Likes
8

It’s not just the closers that most specs have; it’s also that roots and snares were completely reworked to have shorter duration, break at lower damage, and have shorter cooldowns. Now the 2 GCDs for shifting are about equal to most the effective root durations. No point in trying to shift because by the time you do and get back in form it would already tick off or break due to damage. Look at the cooldown of Frost Nova in Classic and Retail, big difference.
And yes, we just go back to dying because our (particularly feral) survival depends on being able to run away, but we just can’t anymore; every other class has a counter.

3 Likes
9

I agree wholeheartedly with this enitre thread. I saw someone on another post call it the “mobility arms race” that Druid is losing. So true.

Everyone has gotten insane mobility and infinite roots and stuns (paladins even became ranged) while we have lost much of our edge in this sense and as mentioned in this thread, we need a lot GCDs to deal with it and we can’t do any damage and still die (to most melee especially). I feel this especially hard with balance druid. Yes we have dots and should be able to put them and kite but it doesn’t work out that way. We just get trained by melee.

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Blizzard seems to have been listening, the new war within expansion somewhat remedied this issue with the new talent Fluid Form, which allows us to instantly shift back into a form by using abilities like shred/rake (cat), mangle (bear), wrath (moonkin).

Moonkin got the best iteration as casting wrath instantly transforms you into moonkin form and you can move to cancel wrath, so technically you can shift in and out of moonkin form without using any GCDs at all. For moonkins, this is actually better than before the cooldown change to forms was introduced if you know how to utilize it.

For feral and guardian, it’s a step in the right direction, but usage-wise still clunky and situational, as you need a target within melee range to be able to actually shift back into your desired form. Maybe change moonkin’s to be on par with feral/guardian, and only shift you into form once the spell actually goes off.

Overall, I think the best outcome would be to just revert the cooldown change when leaving form and replacing the talent choice with something new.

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If you don’t have any targets within melee range, is it really going to hurt you to burn a GCD anyway though?

Food for thought.

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when other classes are capable of spamming roots and slows from range every global cooldown matters when you’re spam shifting in and out of forms attempting to catch up, yes, or in some instances, if you’re trying to stay on target, and they move just out of that melee range, your ability to use the talent isn’t possible.

13

I understand that, but if they’re not in melee range, you’re not going to be getting them regardless of what form you’re in. Therefor having to do it manually isn’t going to hurt you is what i’m saying as there’s no wasted gcd, because they’re out of range, so you have no offensive gcd to use anyway.

So burning the GCD as opposed to letting it sit is the go to play.

14

I can’t wait for the Balance Druid changes to go live… I just think the next step would be a defensive buff… and, ultimately, I’d wish to see a return to a more Legion-BfA-like state… Without Eclipse, slightly slower but with more weight on each spell… Making the kit more cohesive and individual ability presses more meaningful, as opposed to a swing of spamming a builder or a spender for several seconds.

15

and what if you catch up to them while shifting but aren’t in cat form, that’s another global cooldown you’d have to use to shift back into your desired form, you’re still using or waiting an extra gcd to shift in to a form if there’s a cooldown when leaving them. If you’re understanding then you understand that the more GCDs you use, the slower your movement and responses are to situations, and the more clunky it feels.

16

That’s when the talent comes into play…

You’re not. You’re waiting an extra gcd to remain rooted to keep cat form for no reason when there isn’t anyone in range (unless you use it on heals or other CC forms while rooted or snared yourself but that’s another matter).

If they’re out of melee range and you’re needing to shift to break root or CC, they’re not just going to be standing there, you’re not going to catch them in the .5 seconds of that GCD. And if you do hold a gcd in hopes that you do catch them, you’re still wasting a gcd’s lifespan.

17

That limits you to using shred or rake to get back into cat form when you could have already been in cat form. what if you already have full combo points and your next move was to bite or maim? It still ends up being a wasted global cooldown just to move back into form when you could have already been in form.

If I leave cat form, there’s a cooldown to shift back into cat form, I can use that time to shift into another form, use a spell, anything else, then shift back into cat form. That’s two global cooldowns you’re using regardless of what you do, whether it’s waiting for cat form to come off cooldown or using a spell/form then shifting back to cat form.
OR
How it used to be, you can shift out of cat form, and back into cat form, using a singular GCD. This is still possible under certain circumstances, like using the Fluid Form talent, or by casting spells such as tiger’s fury, or dash to instantly shift back into cat form. Keep in mind this is important because you break roots/slow both when shifting out and in to form, and why that is important because if someone’s spamming roots and slows on you, you can do that inside of their GCD since leaving form is off GCD.

Remember that the idea of this is to remove roots or slows if you’re trying to move or catch up to a target, given that most classes are on the same GCD, it can range anywhere from 1.0 to 1.5, or lower if you have a high amount of haste. Also again, you are capable of leaving a form while still on global cooldown, which is useful when you’re being spammed by roots and slows as you can move and jump without being hindered by movement slowing effects during that split second.

18

They’re not going to allow powershifting again. That’s why this talent exists. There is no “could have been in cat form already”. You have to shift one way or another, and this is the best scenario.

It’s not. You’re still doing damage and/or refreshing a dot WHILE shifting. It’s not a wasted GCD as the GCD needed to be used one way or another.

Correct. But in one situation you’re using the GCD for something meaningful, the other is you wasting it by doing nothing.

Hasn’t been this way for a decade. They’re not going back on it and said they don’t want to go back on it. Your talking pipe dreams here.

And they’re not going to remain in range for your whole idea to work the way you’re describing it. Your best bet is still to change forms (like bear form), while chasing after them. And if you do happen to close the distance you use the Fluid Form to deal damage and go back into cat form.

You’re not getting power shifting back. This is as close as you’re gonna get

19

They did in classic, there was a lot of things they changed, but that was one of the things they left in. Also I don’t think you’re understanding, if you shift only in and out of cat form, rather than another form to remove roots/slows, you definitely “could have been in cat form already” by the time you reach them. Also what I was saying is that you’d have to swap into another form if you wanted to continue shifting in and out of forms, rather than the one you previously left due to putting a cooldown on shifting back into that form. If you were to say, catch up to your target during at shifting period, and weren’t in cat form because you were shifting into another form like travel or bear, you would have to use another gcd to shift back into cat form because you were simply not able to just shift in and out of cat form in the first place. I’m not saying you woudn’t want to shift out, that’s inevitable. Currently the only way to efficiently do that is by using cooldowns or the talent, which works like a psudo-shift (if you’re within melee range). Using an extra GCD or two just to be able to do what you used to be able to do with a single GCD is detrimental. Shifting and using minimal GCDs is important in situations where every second counts, I’m sure you’re aware of that.

It’s still a decent middle-ground, I’m not saying it’s bad, but it’s a far cry from what we used to be capable of. Keep in mind too, that it can be a waste depending on the situation, as again it’s situational. If the target you’re focusing on needs to be CC’d, or low health, wouldn’t you rather bite to ensure a kill rather than shred or rake? what if you don’t want to refresh your rake because you snapshotted it previously with tiger’s fury? you’d be intentionally hampering your damage at that point if you decided to rake instead of shred.
What if your skull bash is on cooldown and you need to CC them because they’re casting a spell? if you aren’t already in cat form to maim, or your bash is on cooldown still, you’d have to waste the global to shift back into cat form then maim, when you could have already maimed by the time you caught up to them, and by then they could have already gotten the spell cast off (this is assuming you were in a different form by the time you caught up to them rather than cat form).
Like I said, it’s situational and you could have already been in cat form, since you could have been able to shift into it during its cooldown rather than waiting for it.

you’re not wasting it by doing nothing, you’re still using it to shift in and out of your primary form at a faster pace than they can spam slows and roots. Like I said you can shift out of form while still being on GCD, which means you can remove roots and slows more efficiently than someone would be able to spam them on you. This is still possible if you utilize more than cat form shifting, or cooldowns to shift back into cat form, it’s just clunky because you’re unable to shift back into your main form without waiting for that cooldown unless you use the talent or a cooldown like tiger’s fury or dash.

Where exactly did they say this? Also again, it’s something they didn’t fix or change it in classic and it’s been a blast playing feral there, it feels more fluid than the current iteration of feral on retail (not to say retail feral is bad, just doesn’t feel as complete or satisfying).

I said it was situational, and gave some situations. I’m not sure why you have to keep emphasizing “you’re not getting it back” when we technically did with the fluid form talent (as clunky as it is for feral/guardian), and it’s still possible granted you use CDs to be able to do so.
I don’t think you’re understanding how close combat can come down to the second, and wasting time shifting to different forms and waiting for your previous form to come off cooldown rather than just shifting back to your primary form can mean the difference between life and death. (again, fluid form could be seen as a psudo-fix for this, but what if you were already in cat form from using a GCD earlier to shift, rather than using that GCD in that instance to shift back into cat form? you would then be able to instantly maim or otherwise, instead of waiting on shred/rake GCD to shift back into form if you’re using that to avoid the initial cooldown of shifting out).
If they “aren’t bringing it back” then perhaps they should have made the moonkin form change work after the wrath went off rather than instantly on spell cast since you can cancel it to cancel the GCD and immediately cast anything else in moonkin form.
It’s literally even more insane for moonkins since they don’t even need to use a GCD at all to change forms, they can just move after casting wrath to cancel the spell/GCD. It’s a straight buff for them over actually using a GCD to enter form?
Partly makes me think it wasn’t thoroughly tested if it’s better than what shifting forms used to be, if only solely for moonkins.

20

This isn’t classic.

So anything after in your response is null and void. Yes i understand how it WOULD work with power shifting. But it’s not an option so trying to talk about it like it is is pointless.

The alternative is doing nothing. Or manually shifting. At which point you’re still wasting potential damage.

As for the rake vs shred, yeah it’s going to depend on the situation you’re not going to overwrite a shapshot Rake, so you’d use Shred. Didn’t think this had to be elaborated on.

You keep putting this under the assumption that your target is immobile and standing in one place in which you could catch up to them within a GCD’s time.

Incap Roar has enough range to catch the spell

No you couldn’t have because it isn’t an option to power shift like that. The “what-if” scenarios don’t help your cause. We all know what it was like and what it would be like. The point is though, is that “it’s not”. And you have to accept that and deal with that.

They’ve already discussed they’re not bringing back power shifting as it was.

It’s not clunky, you just don’t like it. But it’s been this way for nearly a decade.

Some blue post years back in Legion when they removed it (think it’s in the older forums). And you can go play Classic then until it hits legion and they remove it again.

If you’re using the CD’s to do it, then it’s not technically what you’re describing now is it?

And they took this ability away, again, in Legion. For nearly a decade, Druids have been dealing with incurred GCD for shifting in and out of forms.

Yes, for the ntheenth time, I understand how it works. But it’s been 8 years of it not working like that (unless you were holding onto TF to use with a cancel form macro to power shift in which that’s stupid and you could have already killed someone with the TF bonus earlier in which you wouldn’t be in this situation).

And this was discussed on the forums about what they should do and they looked at it and decided that it wasn’t fair to wait for an entire cast time to shift which leads in to the next point:

Most of their abilities require cast time. And their abilities are ranged as is. So it’s not like rooting a Boomkin is suddenly going to cause them to not use a single ability they have. It’s not the “insane buff” you think it is.