I thought of this after my recent post, but similar idea. PvP gear acquired either doesn’t work in open world, or potentially it’s a separate gear slot that overrides your current gear when you enter a BG.
If you put BGs in a vacuum where the impact of participating in them or not makes no impact to outside of them then the argument against them becomes entirely irrelevant. It’s really just a question of if Blizzard would actually go through the effort to make those kinds of changes.
The argument against them isn’t irrelevant because you’re creating situations in HC where people aren’t suffering permanent deaths, all deaths are final in HC no exceptions, and it doesn’t matter how the death occurs, and that includes deaths even PvP.
If you really want to PvP without dying permanently, there are tons of servers that allow just that and you should go there.
Who cares? That’s what I say. What matters is that you die in the server, not in a BG. No point in keeping players hostage for their enjoyment. And we damn well understand that dying in a BG isn’t the same as dying in the actual server from a murloc.
Oooorrrrrr just transfer off HC
Why should I leave? Just to BG insane talk. This kind of behavior is exactly why games dont improve, players/devs with that mind set is awful and unfaithful. People can have opinions but doesnt mean its good. You yourself and other that are anti BG in HC is just bad. No point on blocking players enjoyment cause you want them lock in hc game mode. Even tho they went to a BG all the gear they get they cant use in doomhowl oh jeez that was hard to think about.
Agreed.
I’m all for having BGs, but death is permanent as is fitting on HC.
Because you’re not really HC and you don’t appear to be happy, it’s why you trying to make excuses on why you should be able to do content where you can ignore at the fact that you die over and over, basically breaking the only real rule HC has, which is not dying. You can’t ignore that rule so you can’t do BGs and ignore deaths. There are tons of servers that will allow you to do exactly what you want, you can even free transfer there.
People also aren’t blocking you, you simply choose the wrong server to play on, but fortunately Blizzard realized people would do this, and allow you to free transfer off the servers at any time you want.
As for the game not improving, you don’t make the game better by basically making HC not HC and making it the same as every other server. Blizzard made the correct call when they made the HC servers, all deaths are final, there are no exceptions and no appeals.
I understand your point that BGs as they exist for the classic era don’t jive with HC, but that can be solved by updating BG design to not result in death and instead to pass out or faint and return to a medical tent for treatment.
It might also be fun to implement lives within BGs or other new concepts specific to the HC environment.
Interesting, because the HC addon allowed pardons by council with specific criteria, and it also had a different ruleset than official HC has. Not to mention the SF option was added with the anniversary servers if memory serves. Originally it was just self imposed.
These unique iterations of Classic are ultimately malleable and so it may not make sense to update existing servers with new rules there are certainly new things they can do on future servers to keep it interesting for old players and draw in new ones. Stagnation will result in the death of Classic, that’s part of the reason why we have SOD and HC to begin with.
You’re full of logical fallacies aren’t you? Moved on from strawman to no true scotsman.
The HC add-on was a joke, it wasn’t HC, it was appeal-core, basically you simply had to decide your death didn’t count and you could simply appeal it away, the council of course accepted gifts like pizzas to sweep some of the more questionable deaths under the rug. No death was too minor to hit the “it didn’t happen” button for many players. The term Hardcore and the play style came out of Diablo 2 long before WOW existed, and no there was never any rules other than you don’t die, and there were never appeals.
As someone who was part of the discord I can confirm you have no idea what you’re talking about. Countless people came to their appeals channel and got denied for various reasons, even in cases where they should have been granted an appeal, but failed to provide the specific evidence they demanded due to not knowing the specific rules beforehand.
So many denied “I don’t have footage but I have screenshots” threads.
There was never a justifiable reason for an appeal to be granted.
People who don’t make the game mode don’t get a vote. They developed an addon, created rules for it, and decided on an appeal process since it was community driven, which I understand Blizzard isn’t going to bother with. And the funny thing is you may dislike how they ran it but you have them to thank for official HC.
Also don’t think I don’t see you avoiding my comments about how BGs could be altered and updated to meet HC criteria. It’s fine, I’ll just assume it means you’re not sure how to argue against it.
That doesn’t make appeal-core any less of a joke than it was. Thankfully Blizzard was smart enough not to add the travesty of appeals and gave us an actual HC server where death is actually final.
As for BGs, the only way they would be acceptable is if by participating there was a high chance of death kind of like Mak’gora, otherwise all your trying to do is make HC normal ERA so people can label themselves as HC, just for the label.
It really wasn’t, but if you want to be salty about it then be my guest I suppose; it’s nothing more than more no true scotsman logical fallacy. You don’t own the definition of HC and no one really cares that another game did it first in a specific way so it must always be followed in that way and only in that way. There are no rules to this, games are allowed to revamp how it works to suit that game’s needs.
I wouldn’t ever grace them with that compliment. There was never a debate internally about an appeals process because they were never going to fund setting up a team to deal with it; it costs exactly zero dollars to say too bad so sad.
They could also revamp BGs to be non-combative types of content to avoid the issue of death. I don’t really have specifics to offer, but I imagine things like nobody can deal damage, but can still sheep, snare, slow, root, etc and the BG objectives are changed to involve less combat mechanics (like killing the FC or a team defending a base) and more about racing to complete objectives within the BG. I’m not sure if how well that could be pulled off within WoW, but it would be interesting to attempt.
Short of that kind, I’ve continued to toss out the idea of revamping how death occurs in BGs via not actually incurring death and instead involve a pass out mechanic. I’ll continue to iterate that BGs can’t have rewards in this scenario because a safe way to grind R14 gear would be bonkers, and with that out of the way the argument is basically about being mad people can have fun doing content that makes zero impact to in-game progression. I will lose zero sleep over this for all it offends.
I think you vastly overestimate how much people care about being able to label themselves as HC. I play HC for the same reason I played SOD; it’s just something different to get into in the Classic universe. I have absolutely zero obsession with maintaining the status quo of what any version of these games are and I will advocate for finding new ways to make it fresh for old and new players.
To that extent keeping OG HC servers for the people that want nothing more than death = delete is fine, but I hope that Blizzard be open minded and look to make more variations going forward because stagnation in anything will result in it losing its appeal, and possibly eventually dying out. You can see that the forever Classic servers are in a sorry state compared to what we have available on the seasonal servers.
I’m sure a blizzard poll would be all we need. My evidence is anecdotal, but literally every single person I know that plays WoW (that I keep in contact with) dislikes not being able to do PvP in HC WoW. So take it as you will, but I know me and my group represent a population of the game.
I truly believe adding pvp and putting us in the other appropriate battlegroups would be a really good thing for HC WoW. I also believe the argument about PvP gear in HC WoW being an issue is actually not an issue at all. It could be patched in tomorrow and things would be totally fine and actually better. Every version of WoW has pvp gear. HC WoW can too.
I just think it’s so crazy that all these players are trying to make condition-based implementation of BGs when literally they could be implemented as is and be 100% fine. Let me PvP. Let me get rewarded for PvP. Many of us since vanilla WoW (early 2000’s) such as myself have PvE’d to get better gear for PvP. PvP is my end state and many others’ end state. BG’s are great, but I’m not allowed to participate in them because if a murloc kills me it’s GG no RE. Silly.
I don’t doubt this, and I know there are people that are pro-PvP, but we have no idea where the minority/majority of this sits. I have not talked to any of my friends and have them complain about no access to PvP, but it’s all anecdotal.
Access to PvP gear wouldn’t break HC WoW in the sense that it being available isn’t a problem with the balance of the game. Technically I believe it is all available, but no one does it for obvious reasons.
The problem is that if you put BGs in and allow deaths without losing your character you are creating content where people can gear up safely, which is not what HC is about. This also causes a problem for players who are working towards goals after hitting 60 as they now have a chunk of content that bucks the entire HC concept but may feel obligated to do it because the gear is so good.
HC is that doing anything is a risk, and as you take on bigger risks the rewards reflect that. I’m not above saying BGs with deaths and no rewards bucks the the HC system at some level, I just simply do not care since the activity yields no reward and that makes it rather harmless. I value creating more content for players to participate in rather than stomping my feet about how death must always = delete or it’s just not HC enough.
If all you want to do is PvP I don’t know why you don’t just play on the other Classic fresh servers. The fresh Classic servers are bumping just like the HC servers are so it’s not like you’d struggle to be able to play. If you’re really into death = delete while leveling you can make that your own personal challenge.
No death & no rewards BG in HC … I’d be fine with this. And so would you if you just want to PvP because it’s fun.
There could be some rewards, for example, the mount. That would make it motivating and fun.
I’m not entirely against cosmetic rewards, especially if people just wanted to get ranks for cosmetic titles. I’d say the mounts would need to be full price though. I do not want to provide any tangible benefit (re: character progression) via a system that has no fear of death so the R11 mounts being a dirt cheap incentive is out of the picture. Beyond that I do have some fear that even cosmetic rewards may promote dominating with premades and as we saw in Classic it really ruined the casual BG experience. That could be addressed later if it was really bad though.
If my memory serves me right, there is nothing stopping yall from just transferring your characters to the carebear server so you can have your BGs.
It seems to me that you have a tough decision to make. I wish I could make it for you, but you need to decide what is more important to you. Staying HC or BGs.
Full disclosure, I am against BGs in HC because I can already see the complaining that would come with it and it woudl be worse than what we see here already.