You said mutation, we’re talking more than just mutation of the hair color, more melanin. height, etc.
Are Bonobos and Chimpanzees the same race?
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I’m sorry what height changed?
Void Elves were changed instantly into what they are. They are high elves with blue skin, blue blood, various colors of hair and the potential for tentacles.
If the same were to happen to a human, we would not consider them a different race. They’d be considered having some sort of mutative condition.
You’ve actually made this much more clear to me ironically. lol
Bonobos and Chimpanzees do not make a 1:1 comparison in this situation. Those are two separate species that evolved away from one common ancestor over a massive amount of time.
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You can just make a Belf or Velf look like a Helf and play it as one ICly.
Ugh. Another elf thread.
See you later everybody.
For you yes.
This is why I brought up the Marvel world and mutants.
You see it as mutated Humans.
I see Humans who mutated to something else. Akin to “Homosuperior” for Magneto. I would not consider them human anymore, something else. They don’t bleed the same. They have weird tentacles, something happened to their voice, etc. They are not human anymore, they may appear human, but no longer actual homosapiens.
Bonobos and Chimpanzees are quite a 1:1, they are the same genus just not the same species.
It would be a far clearer argument and a much stronger argument how Void Elves and High/Blood Elves are like the Bonobos and Chimpanzees, because that ancestral diversion was a mutation itself.
To me, this illustrates just how much you have a confirmation bias going on. You said time, well Azeroth has something we don’t, real magic.
Thank you.
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I mean, the only half elf character we’ve seen just uses the BElf model, and this update seems to indicate they just have the ear stuff going on
So uh. In the Warcraft universe, no, there isn’t more than pointy ears when it comes to half-elves. They’re just, not a Warcraft thing
Sure but since they’re wrong about how that works at all in the entire thing (even assuming evolution could work like that at all) I find Marvel mutants to be very inadequate to make that claim.
But to your social viewpoint point, I’m sure the “racist”, for lack of a better word in this case, members of both high elves and blood elves would easily try to make that claim.
But wasn’t immediate and forced upon an existing community and people. They’ve had a condition applied not a new racial format. Even on PTR we find evidence of a new void elf who took the condition on willingly to become a new void elf.
This isn’t really a matter of an actual racial change, its more of a condition with how Blizzard is framing it. One that does cause considerable physical changes.
Like before though I would not consider them exactly the same as a high/blood elf. Their condition changes them from that.
This still suggests that they’re just another type of high elf overall and not a new “race”.
Your confirmation bias is strong enough to the point that you stated how they are in fact high elves with a condition and not a new race or species. Its you who has the confirmation bias.
I thought more on your lines before you brought this up. lol
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It’s like they don’t believe the lore when it says the High Elves who survived the 3rd war changed their name to honor their fallen. As if the few who didn’t go along with the change is anything but a fringe faction.
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Nope.
If it can go away, then it is a condition.
The Genus would remain the same, yes. (I believe if I remember correctly, Thalassian? We both agree with.) And I know you are avoiding this because you didn’t answer, are Bonobos and Chimpanzees the same race? They are not but quite close cousins and can even be confused for one another without an untrained eye.
This is why they are comparable. The other parts that align well with this are elucidated by Runeleaf. You can look at a breakdown difference between Bonobo culture/society vs Chimpanzee and see changes and differences (a lot is even attributed to environment). I have a feeling like Runeleaf, we will see a divergent society emerge with the Ren’Dorei from traditional Quel/Sin’Dorei. I will concede this is a hypothesis though.
There are other species of Humans who would not be the same with as “us” that we interbred with (Neanderthals being the most well known). We do not classify or see them as “human” like us, but are still the same Genus of human (I cannot use the terman due to censors). I’m using biology terms because no matter how you break it down, Ren’Dorei are a different branch like the Shal’Dorei would be.
TLDR; Ren’Dorei are removed from being Quel’Dorei quite broadly as a race. They can inherit some norms etc, but that’s not biological or racial. Embracing the Void is against Quel/Sin’Dorei norms as well.
To be clear, I want playable high elves. Having said that, I think blizzard reps more than once mishandled this subject and instead of just saying no and at best maybe saying that it’s because it’s controversial, they gave coy answers with easily refutable reasons and then a quasi insult (play horde).
So that puts us at today. I got my hopes up that they were coming until I saw the Dalaran thing. The super cynical part of me said “hey look, the high elf-hating warlock lead designer just gave a middle finger to high elf hopefuls and mages in one stroke”.
I do apologize for how negative that sounds, but here’s the reality. I think they’re largely tired of this subject. It’s anecdotal, but until void elves were both given normal features and made almost freely available, I rarely saw them. But take that part with a grain of salt. More important is that, despite those things, this subject still remains. So how to deal with it?
If making it go away is the idea, then not to be rude but the problems in your scenario (which I would absolutely love to be true) are twofold.
Presently, void elves cannot go near the well. The still voidy heart of M’uru plus the power of the well plus another powerful source of void energy seems to allow a link to be formed by the void.
Maybe they can learn to stop that, but beyond that is that if the goal is to force high elves to join one or the other, then not destroying the well leaves them the option to still stay as they are, alliance aligned high elves, meaning this subject still wouldn’t go away. Destroying it brings back their addiction and withdrawal and ensures that they pretty much “must” pick one side or the other. Then, should this issue once again come up, they will just be able to say “why are you asking for them? they don’t exist anymore lul” which is par for the course; a coy, borderline rude answer instead of a respectful and professional one.
I do apologize if this seems dream-crushy, but I did want to share this thought process to see what everyone thinks. I would like to be wrong.
Edit: I’m being stupidly bitter about Dalaran. It’s a mage city. It can be brought back overnight if the story demands. It’s just I suspected almost immediately it was largely necessitated as part of how they were going to accomplish merging high elves out of existence.
Please no, like can we as a community stop making threads for High Elves? Like I used to really want them.
Now I’m content with Void Elves, because they’re Thalassian Elves on the Alliance with traditional skin and hair colors. Only things I could see them getting are new hairs, classes, and maybe an Entropic Embrace toggle.
But these threads are so exhausting, because a BUNCH of neckbeard trolls always come in and go “I’ve been playing one since 2007”.
As if playable races aren’t largely factions not the race it’self we play. And High Elves are most certainly a FACTION that is vastly different to Blood Elves. It’s also clear what people mean when they talk about them.
But neckbeards gonna neckbeard. And they always devolve into this toxic mess.
Ok, but like being a Void Elf can’t go away from a lore perspective. Their blood is purple, and they’ve got Schizophrenia. Just like you can’t un-lightforge.
We have no reason to believe you can un-voidforge. Which is effectively what Void Elves are, in BOTH types we see of them. )The Alleria looking ones, and the Umbric looking ones).
To be quite frank this isn’t the case. Someone with terminal cancer is not suddenly a different species. Someone with shingles is not a different species.
And to be fair we also don’t know yet if this process could be reversed with the void elves and have no reason to think it couldn’t.
I didn’t answer because its not relevant. Its not the same thing.
Those are two different established species separate from one another. We’re talking about the same species, where a portion of the population has a condition. Had Void Elves evolved directly from Blood/High Elves you’d have the bonobos and chimps going.
The void has infused the Ren’dorei and changed aspects of their physical nature, but its not an evolutionary process.
A society divergence will happen regardless of if they are or are not a separate species. Thats something that can happen between different members of the same species all the time. Social is not Biological, at least not directly and very definitely not in this case.
Biology and its evolutionary format does not work here. They are not a species that evolved. They’re Blood Elves with a condition inflicted by the void.
They were suggesting actually that they cannot go away. He was countering my argument that Void Elves are Blood Elves with a condition.
Also we do not actually know if it can or cannot go away so that is assumption one way or another.
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Blizzard is a bit of an oddball of a company in this department, i seriously have never seen another company go so far out of their way to not deliver on the wishes of their customers, and when they finally do give a long asked for thing, it’s a bastardized version of it that doesn’t really make anyone 100% happy lol
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Rexxar until bfa just used the orc model.
Same deal here, until blizz makes his a model just for arathar, he uses a syock model.
You are never getting high elves.
You are never getting high elves.
You are never getting high elves.
You are never getting high elves.
You are never getting high elves.
You are never getting high elves.
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I never asked for them 
Midnight is going to make a lot of you look very silly.
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lol you noticed that too?
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perhaps the best way to think of it is, the mutation must be caused over a long time to be considered a differemt race. and not the result of enviromental impacters with near immediate results, such as drinking a potion or crystal radiation. even the elephant man and cojoined twins are still considered h. sapiens sapiens
presumably the different race mutation would have to be inheritable and passed on to offspring, in each offspring, and not just a genetic abnormality that happens once in awhile.
I would have imagined Dalaran being destroyed would have been a good thing, this means that the remaining High elves can no longer just reside in a neutral city anymore, this forces those remaining groups to pick a home. This could easily end up with the High elves there returning to Stormwind which opens up a lot of possibilities.
I don’t think the heart of M’uru is “voidy” as Velen mentioned that it was purified to it’s original state before reigniting the Sunwell, the reason why Void elves cannot go near it is because of the volatile reaction between the Void interacting with the Light and because the Void can use anyone linked to the void as a conduit to enter our world, presenting a threat the sanctity of the Well.
I don’t think it makes much sense that the Sunwell being destroyed would cause the High elves to return home, after all they didn’t return home the first time it was destroyed. If anything High elves are more hardened against their withdrawal, using meditation to alleviate the effects where as Blood elves needed to actively siphon magic as they were contending with multiple forces trying to invade and destroy them.
The Sunwell remaining would stand as a beacon, and I could see it serving as a symbol of unity between the two groups as they come together to protect it. I doubt the Void elves would be welcomed into the city even if the Sunwell was destroyed to be perfectly honest.
This works both ways, those Void elves might actually also want to protect the Sunwell but realize they must do it in their own way, by bringing the fight to the void itself. Like-minded High elves might want to join. Thus giving the remaining High elves two avenues to join either side.
If the idea is that you want Void elves in Silvermoon, I just don’t think that’s ever going to be a thing, but hey, I could be wrong.
How you feel about Dalaran, many of us feel about the Sunwell. The story for so long was that the High elves had lost their Sunwell to Arthas, and the heartbreak of their failed defense against the undead forces. It feels like every mystical Well, or magical location is being blown up, or burned away.
I would like this time to be different, where the all the elves come together and fight off the evil threatening the Sunwell, instead of retreading the same history of the elves failing to defend their well and watching it get corrupted or destroyed in the hands of their enemies.
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