that craven strategem is OP. Completely wiping off a DK’s wounds and no consequence for self purging of Dots like VT or UA not very cool.
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I wasn’t aware this was a dot meta. However, Hunters are the weakest class around. Even DKs have called us “lesser”. I would just burst a Hunter down because you know damage will stick because they don’t have the best ways to shave off or turn damage off. It’s not like Feign Death comes with a heal, and dots can be reapplied.
As a DK, if you can smoke a Hunter in a few globals I would laugh at stuff like this. “Oh, I can purge myself every 10 seconds.”
I just did 80% of your HP in one second. GG.
“If you’ve got a yield sign in your spleen… jogging doesn’t come into play! ‘I can run twenty-five miles without stopping!’
‘You’re bleeding.’” --Ron “Tater Salad” White
Nope. We sacrifice a damage leggo for it.
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No we aren’t. You’re just bad.
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Probably not as bad as someone complaining about not being able to kill a Hunter. If you can’t frag a Hunter, you should get a endgame career change or cancel subscription. I’m dead serious in saying that because if you can’t frag a Hunter you can’t frag anything. That’s where it starts(a good way to get new PvPers to learn is to teach them how to kill a Hunter). I wasn’t hinting OP was bad, because Ripsteezy is not really incorrect by saying that Craven is indeed OP. I was hinting that Craven in this meta is irrelevant. Not to mention that when a Hunter uses FD, they’re sacrificing a global which cuts off their DPS for a smidge. There are classes who can use defensives offensively much better. It’s interesting when you look at Hunters(MM particularly) and most of their defensives and CC are the kinds that cancels DPS. With Intimidation being the outlier(and you can just trinket that), Hunters don’t really do damage when the enemy player has loss of control on their characters.
An early Turtle(which can’t be used offensively) is a clue that Hunter is going to lose unless it’s a ploy to draw fire. After that, you have a baseline 172 seconds to go to town on him.
Because DKs can still burst and do direct damage abilities. I would not bother much with the ΔDPS component, if that’s even a thing a DK can lean more towards. When a Hunter feigns, 1.5 seconds is another time to retarget so you can skip over the Survival Tactics buff. That’s 10 seconds’ worth of globals to ream him/her. And though this hasn’t been the best expansion for DKs they’re not a joke, particularly Necro DKs.
There is one thing I know about stealthing. Since Camouflage has a 1 min cooldown that doesn’t start until Camo is canceled, Feigning Death does not cancel combat for a Hunter to use it. Rogues have used that to their advantage since time immemorial, but Hunters are not so fortunate to be able to restealth at will. If PvP combat ended the moment a Hunter can FD like it does conventionally against MOST PvE targets, AND I can get Camo back faster, then I would have a greater use for Craven. I have done the Turtle-FD-Camo(TFC) trick several times since Turtle is useful when you want to do non-combat stuff.
But to put it in a shorter package, people have to understand the tradeoff. Hunters are glass cannons, but the glass cannon in question can only do one job at a time. It either shoots off and does damage, or it has to STOP doing damage to preserve itself. So I apologize if I’m not sympathetic to people having a hard time with Hunter including other Hunters. They are still boot camp recruits who need to drill more.
Nope. You’re pretty trash. Like bottom of the barrel if you think hunters are the weakest class.
A DK should almost never touch you in a 1v1.
The fact that you think craven is irrelevant is 100% proof you are bad and absolutely clueless.
You clearly are terrible at kiting.
A DK should never touch you outside of grips/slappy hands.
You’re so bad you should just stop commenting on pvp period.
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We know Death Grip is STILL in the game. We also know that Abomination Limb is quite the handy anti-kiting tool in their arsenal.
You would be surprised about DKs. I haven’t run into a whole lot of them just yet this season, but it can be quite…harrowing.
I’m not cowed by you because nose-to-nose I’ve done harder scat than you. You would be a recruit calling a senior drillmaster a piece of trash. It’s nothing against you personally. It’s hard, cruel, and unfair out there in WPvP. You haven’t been humbled enough to change your mind.
To me it’s 110% proof that people are so bad to not counter it. Because like I said, spend the good second and a half or two seconds to retarget the Hunter(because FD does not make a feigning Hunter immune to targeting). But unlike you, I don’t just go and call people bad. They’re not bad that they can’t learn; they’re bad that they WON’T.
Hunters are not as mobile as they used to be, and plenty of classes still have gapclosers. If Legion and BFA taught me one thing: get in the right position and do as much damage as you can. Kiting doesn’t work the way it has in years past: you only die tired.
You have to remember I was coming into Hunter PvP in the Legion era. We’re not talking about(assuming we can cut all the expansions into two equal groups) the first half of Retail WoW here. A Marks cannot do their fullest DPS rotation completely on the move. It hasn’t been this way for at least 6 years so I don’t know how you missed it.
That is true. But they can do enough DPS to seal the deal in that time. We can’t assume DK is the pushover class. That has NEVER been a thing, EVER.
I actually enjoy your trolling attempts because each time you do you pick my brain. You want to see how much I know and how well I know it. Again, it’s been almost 7 years for me. I wouldn’t be able to say all these things if this was my first expansion. I certainly wouldn’t know the SUCK that was Leg and BFA.
I’ve successfully threaded this thread, and it wasn’t even that hard.
You don’t use disengage till death grip.
You don’t use cheetah till abom limb.
Even if you were to use one of those you have freezing trap to trap until you can separate distance again.
Concussive shot should be up permanently.
Like I said it’s a 100% you issue.
You have zero idea what I have done in world pvp. Trust me based on just your responses in here you’re not good and killing random bad players in world pvp doesn’t disprove that.
False. I kite very well. It’s called saving your distance creators for their gap closers. Good players can kite very easily.
Kiting isn’t about doing max damage. It’s about doing more damage then you’re taking. You can still weave an aimed shot here and there when kiting.
Yeah if you don’t use defensive abilities or trinkets.
I’m not even trolling. You really are that bad.
The only thing you have done is proven that you don’t have a clue what you are talking about.
Thanks for telling me things I already know. I’m so glad you can beat an DK on paper like that.
You’d think I’d respect you more if I had more of an idea, but you’re right. I don’t. So I guess you’ll let me disrespect you.
I’m not going to take this deflection. This wasn’t about how well you kite or anyone else.
I can do more damage than taking it if I stand still in the right spot. I don’t really call that kiting, though people often stand still when flying a kite.
Which isn’t going to nullify everything.
A troll is not going to admit he’s trolling. That’s antithetical to trolling.
I’ve only been back for a bit over two weeks over a 6 month break, but that doesn’t answer for my cluelessness if I have any.
You either didn’t know them or don’t know how to apply it.
I don’t care if you respect me. I just don’t want your clueless statements read by people and they think it’s accurate.
It’s about kiting. You clearly aren’t good at it.
You also take more damage standing still. The goal is to reduce the damage you take and increase the damage you deal.
Calling someone a troll is because you lack the ability to refute their points.
Your best bet is to stop thinking you know what you’re doing and actually do some research.
End of the line on that argument. This is a bursty meta so you have to remember this isn’t the more defensive BFA style.
You seem to be afraid that I may actually be right on things and people like you would be discredited. Oh no, we can’t have this pleb be more in the right than us. But I think readers can decide for themselves. “We report, you decide”.
You have zero idea how I even do this kiting you’re talking about. I learned Hunter PvP in a time when we got pruned hard and had to deal with melee mobility. If I got through BFA without giving up on Hunter, that ought to speak volumes.
BM and SV is ez mode when it comes to this. But Marks has the 45-50 yd range which helps. Positioning is really the key.
Wasn’t I just arguing that you were putting me on the spot and testing my knowledge? Technically you wouldn’t be a troll since you’re not making me mad. I’m actually overjoyed to share what I know. It’s not so much arguing AGAINST you but arguing FOR me. Apologetics.
You mean to be a lemming who can’t think for himself and accept everything the hardcores have to say as Gospel?
Heh, you understand that’s the kind of attitude that has killed the community? I’m a MAN OF THE PEOPLE! A hardcore is no better than a casual when it comes to these things. If you’re right, you’re right.
*By the way, I finally got my “grenadier” set up for MSV.
I know the meta. I have actually played it against good players.
Not even close. You’re not even correct on anything. There is literally nothing for me to be afraid of.
It means absolutely nothing.
If you stand still you’re bad. Period.
Sharing incorrect information doesn’t make you knowledgeable.
I never said that. But you’re pushing information that’s incorrect because you think you’re being intelligent by trying something new.
Venthyr hunter isn’t new. It’s fairly common higher up the ladder because good healers dispell explosive shot.
Here’s the thing. I am right and you are wrong. You’re the one not understanding.
That’s your problem. Anyone who doesn’t seem to agree with you without a challenge is a burden to you. You’re just going to continue to be an obstinate donkey.
Understanding what? You’ve never said anything remotely constructive. It has all been destructive. “You’re wrong, you’re nothing, you’re stupid,” and all I’m doing is apologetics. “I’m going to tell you what the pros use and do but I’m not going to explain how they got there. It’s up to you to figure out you need to do this or else you’re wrong.”
You have no idea how much I could just stuff the ignore bin with that kind of trash talk. I don’t have a positive use for it. That’s why I’m tempted to just TALK OVER you, and I know that’s a rude thing to do but it is what it is.
I don’t have a problem. Either way you’re going to continue being completely clueless.
Then you clearly haven’t been reading. I have explained what you were wrong about and how you are wrong and even explained what you can do to play better.
You’re the one saying hunters are in a bad spot and that’s not even remotely close to being true.
There is no positive results from anything you post because you honestly are wrong.
Hunters have to give up a damage legendary to be able to use it. Plus, removing dots isn’t much different than all the classes that can just heal through damage. WoW PvP is just glorified Rock/Paper/Scissors anyway.
Then I think you’ve said enough. Let’s not allow actual problems.
Nope. You didn’t get it from the first post that I was doing open-world. So you were the one who wasn’t reading. I was not one who was pushing rating. You should have picked up that first if you didn’t bother to read one of my threads. That’s starting to become a problem for me.
I never started rated stuff. I never attempted it. So that’s a severely bad take on your part. You’re not talking to someone here who’s hardstuck in the low teen-hundreds and can’t seem to break through.
It would be my opinion or factinion. I can reinforce it and say that since Legion it’s the best bad spot. I just think that in at least one area, such as Versatility, we could be doing a lot better with it LIKE the other classes. I speak a lot of Comparativese.
But given all the catch-up I’ve been doing, I wasn’t wringing my hands thinking it was all a waste of time and I’m just going to lose every ganking attempt I do. There’s players that do that. Actions speak louder than words. I have never been more enthusiastic, as one who had emerged from the Dark Age of Hunter.
I was talking about YOU, the things YOU’VE have said. I never said anyone was stupid, wrong, bad, etc… In this thread, it was “nuke that Hunter” and that was basically it, along with the understanding that if you can’t frag a Hunter you can’t frag anything else. No class takes the L better than us.
As of right now, I’m 265 ilvl in PvP. I’m pretty much done gearing at this point, with the exception of farming some more Valor.
I agree Craven is extremely strong against DoT based classes. Heaven forbid if Rick/paper/scissors is in effect.
We also have to give up a DPS Lego to use it.
And that’s the irony of this meta not being a very strong periodic damage one and how niche it is among damagers. Blizzard in times past have had to curb the strength of dots(especially snapshotting). It’s nice to remember history. You can have dotters so strong with trinkets and other things to the point where it just dominates.
It’s like that scene in Black Hawk Down(good movie to compare to Hunters WPvPing in cities) when the Rangers are gearing up before the operation, how they criticize each other for what needs to be brought. But even that was theorycrafting on their part in the chaos that ensued during Gothic Serpent.
I would even consider Craven to be something of an insult for a defensive, because…what about Survival of the Fittest? How come we don’t have anything that improves that? That puppy is a THREE MINUTE cooldown that gives a 20% damage reduction for a measly 6 secs. Why not 10-20 seconds? Why not make it a 1-2 min cd? And we lost DETERRENCE since Legion! Glyphs especially made Deterrence awesome.
I started in WoD, but even I can remember all the stuff we had that helped kept Hunters ALIVE.
I have known this entire time you’re talking about open world. That doesn’t change what’s better aside from the fact that Necro is better burst in open world pvp because of lack of dispells.
I never said you were. You’re not even good enough to be hardstuck in the teens. You would be sub 1k rated.
Hunters are one of the strongest classes right now. BM and SV are both s tier specs. MM is also very very strong right now.
It’s 100% a you issue.
Gearing has zero relevance.
So Necro is better. Why would I move from Necro to Vent?
I don’t bother with ratings, but if WPvP was rated I would virtually be Gladiator every season.
You saying Hunter being one of the strongest class is romantic. And Dragonflight might be it. Better days are yet to come. Like I said earlier, you haven’t been humbled. Iron Sheik hadn’t put you in his Camel Clutch.
Tattooed in my mind since Wrath was Retail was a Rival(I think) Rogue(don’t remember the season) said that it’s class>spec>comp>gear>skill. Gear is fairly relevant, but class and spec design is very relevant.