Can we all admit that the Forsaken

Not arguing that.

I maintain the obvious and best narrative would’ve been to have had Godfrey come back as a Scourge Warlord: taking control of mindless undead freed by the lack of a Lich King following the Crown’s destruction.

The worgen OBVIOUSLY have personal beef with him, and the Forsaken could gladly go back to their roots of fighting the Scourge.

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Apparently there wasn’t enough blight.

The Forsaken have lived in harmony with the human led city of Hearthglen for like decades now. The Argents welcomed the undead so in turn were themselves welcomed in Lordaeron.

Stormwind and their allies however tried to exterminate the Forsaken, even killing the diplomats that were sent to Elwyn long before any talks with Thrall started. And when this failed and the Forsaken decided to war in the same spirit, suddenly they’re the bad guys.

The only thing the Forsaken did “wrong” was make no apologies for their terror. They don’t try to mask their violence with flowery talks of valor or honor. No they go for the throat in the most efficient way possible and use the mangled remains for rations and recruits when viable.

The Forsaken aren’t evil. They’re just honest.

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“Gods, they’re just normal people,” Genn gasped aloud as Deathstalker Gutstuffer stuffed his guts with guts.

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That’s more or less been resolved

If anything, Arthas would have likely lost to the combined might of both Alliance/Horde. If TWW has taught us anything, the sooner the two factions work together the quicker the big bads plans seem to go inextricably awry.

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The plague at the Wrathgate was strong enough to hurt the Lich King. We should’ve used it against him in Icecrown.

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It was also established in Chronicle III that he specifically intervened at the Wrathgate because the factions’ forces there were about to break into Icecrown Citadel and were legitimately in a position to prematurely take him down, and the Scourge with him.

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That might be a stretch. Arthas would not have come out unless he thought either he had a decent chance of winning or could gain something and then retreat safely.

Personally, I am guessing it was a few powerful souls that he could kill and claim before retreating with the attacking forces weakened and not in a position to push into the Citadel. He grabbed one soul at the very start after all.

Without the blight attack I would guess he would have claimed a few powerful souls and did enough damage to the attacking forces to stall them. The Horde and Alliance would have been better off than they were after the blight attack, but I don’t think they would have won outright.

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From Chronicles 3:

If the Battle of the Wrath Gate had reached its conclusion, it might have spelled the end of the Lich King. But it was not to be.

Being put on lockdown and occupied by a foreign army, even if allied, was a pretty fitting punishment for Wrathgate. Forsaken writing was only decidedly messy in Cata and BFA, as it awkwardly made the rest of the Horde look bad while also subjecting worgen (and to a lesser extent night elves) to wait and see limbo.

That Sylvanas (and Jaina I guess) played zero part in the Arthas encounter while some book character who had zero relation with the man played a key part is still one of the biggest failings in this franchise.

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Right, the point was that since players had seen to the neutralization of the Scourge in Dragonblight, had they successfully breached the Wrathgate, the Alliance and Horde would have mounted an unstoppable joint invasion of ICC at full strength instead of having to wear themselves out against the undead all over the rest of Northrend.

He’d have had their armies marching directly into his Citadel with most of the Scourge still deployed outside its walls to the north and to other parts of Northrend. His whole plan revolved around the factions and their champions being too exhausted and depleted to continue resisting by the time they’d get to ICC, but the Wrathgate situation threatened to see them all kicking in his front door at full strength, which was something he wouldn’t have been able to overpower as he did the players in the final raid fight.

Technically Arthas personally confronting them at the Wrathgate was him attempting to salvage a disaster that was about to bring down the Scourge.

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There is no honest positive answer to ANY question that begins with

“Can we all…”

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I get where you are coming from. I do think that might is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Might could mean 90% chance or 50% or even 2%.

His fall was a possibility there. But I still wouldn’t put it as the most likely scenario.

Very much agree with the sentiment that it was a big mistake, though I feel like they have had some pretty monumental mistakes since then that overshadow it. :wink:

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:dracthyr_no1: :dracthyr_no2: :joy:

That being said, what would you even have them do to the Forsaken? :face_with_raised_eyebrow: lol

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Something very unalliance like I would guess. :dracthyr_hehe_animated:

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:thinking: I remember a thread on the forums from ages back which got shutdown (I’m guessing it unraveled into a cesspool of chaos) — which had the controversial, yet likewise a very popular suggestion of having a ‘patch’ or expansion, towards:

  • Completely “wiping out” the Forsaken, OR
  • Perhaps at the very least dismantle them & expose them as an “enemy to all” henceforth onward …
  • Then give every undead player a “forced race change” :joy:

Naturally, the suggestion had thrown in with it @ giving the city of Lordaeron to the Alliance & expanding it to the size of Stormwind etc, with its own unique architecture & whatnot — but yeah, lol

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That sounds like a horrendous idea. On every conceivable level :dracthyr_nod:

I can’t imagine that going over well for anyone not in the 0.00009% that would actually enjoy it

Nothing so well adjusted in this world as the “the players of your faction need to be punished for the bad writing of your faction that said players hate” posters. Truly they are paragons of critical thought and fairness.

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I mean, I used to suggest years ago that the worgen retake gilneas by beating up on a group of renegade sylvanas loyalists who were hunkering down in the city and using it as a base of operations.

Some ideas aren’t always malicious in their intent.