Can The Worgen Be Fixed?

Lore Story Forum
41

[totally off topic and not about worgens, so feel free to skip]

Late comment, sorry.

When it comes to the content that was removed from the game since Cata, I remember having originally a bunch of quests in elven areas that actually do involve draenei. I remember quest givers in Ashenvale standing right next to elven ones.

Elves were among the 1st to encounter draenei after the crash, draenei even do the quests involving them, like helping a daughter to find her father after the attack of crazed moonkins in the area. Or helping a highborne spirit in a place which is described as

The Bloodcursed Naga
They say when the world was sundered, this land cried the loudest. It was here that thousands of night elves faded into oblivion and in their place rose terrible creatures of hate - the naga.

In the place filled with “Ysera’s tears”, where you free trapped green dragonflight whelp spirits so they can pass on.

[There was so much more to explore around their interactions, how close they were, how intertwined their starting experiences were (mostly talking about Ashenvale though). Some friendship from mutual help. Some tension with “here is how we commune with naaru”. But…]

But we’re talking about the original draenei. Those who were in their nature mostly similar to eredar brethren.

Declaration of Power
Heavy-handed violence is not the draenei way, but sometimes it is the only way.
This is one of life’s truths that many do not understand until it is too late. So it was for our people, when we were slaughtered at the hands of the orcs.
Becoming a Hand of Argus is a process of rebirth. And with birth comes pain…

Vindicator Boros
What it means to be a Hand of Argus… We are agents of the Light. We serve without question. We die without question.

But it was all the way back when the original concepts had meaning. When the altruism and hope of naaru was what showed them a path different from where the rest of eredar went. Now with a different vision of the Light what should happen would be the appearance of what they acutally are by themsleves.

I would describe it (maybe I’m wrong) as “curiosity killed the cat”. If draenei would know that there is some knowledge the path to which would lead the whole universe to demise, they would be like “akshually, if you turn away just at the right time, just thing about how much good with could do for our allies with such knowledge / skill / tool / whatever. It would totally not be a problem, no-no”.

But the current devs do not understand that race at all, so I do not even expect anything sensible. They are there. They are “Velen copy-paste”. The have a human leading them over ancient draenei. You know, when in the same Legion expansion has (in the dungeon journal):

Long ago, in the golden age of eredar civilization, a council was formed to oversee the defense of Argus and maintain peace. But after their dark bargain was struck with Sargeras, these master tacticians used their military expertise to help orchestrate a Burning Crusade that ravaged countless worlds.

Like yes, totally works and fits :unamused:

To me draenei are like the most interesting race I used to like, but sadly there is no future for them to be what they were with the current devs.

Oh well, maybe following relentless pressure of night elf fans altogether we might get some positive changes. Like, people who would respect the origins and why people loved the game and it’s denisens to begin with, over forcing their whim everywhere?

gl hf

2 Likes
42

There are just some races that don’t feel like they mesh well with their faction. The bestial nature of the Worgen doesn’t really gel with the overarching themes of the Alliance, and the peace-loving nature of the Tauren has always felt a little out of place within the Horde (or at least, the current portrayal of the Horde). It would be nice if the various races could add some nuance to their factions - the Night Elves and Worgen adding a predatory, more warlike edge to the Alliance, the Trolls and the Tauren tempering the Horde’s aggression with wisdom - but I doubt this will ever be the case.

2 Likes
43

Well, if take a look at how Metzen himself talked about the alliance, it seems that they fit just fine in the, what seems to be original concept.

So, the problem is in how the current team warped the faction narrative, rather than the idea behind it IMO.

I’m also afraid that won’t happen. Not while people who dragged the story where it is, could influence the narrative direction.

gl hf

1 Like
44

In general I think the Alliance’s narratives woes comes from every other faction being basically supporting roles. It does kinda feel like the Stormwind Show.

Whereas on the Redside while Orcish culture looms the largest, it does very much feel like an ensemble performance. The Trolls, Elves and undead all get their own stories and it never pans over to see how an Orc feels about it.

11 Likes
45

The bestial nature of the Worgen would totally be compatible within the context of WC3-WotLK Alliance. The Alliance whose story involved interior squabbling, discrimination, regicide, internment camps, class conflict, seeking to destroy the Horde before it could grow, and led by a king that was figuratively described as having two wolves inside of them.

It’s not a good fit for Alliance from Cata-onward, who are increasingly portrayed as largely free of discrimination or any internal conflict, always doing the right thing, and wanting nothing more than to mind their own business under the unquestioned leadership of a total pacifist who would rather forgive than ever go on the offensive.

14 Likes
46

What you are saying is that the Worgen had a lot of potential that was simply overlooked. I agree with this.

It was overlooked because they didn’t get much focus (like anyone who isn’t one of the original races, even not all of those) and and what they didn’t seem to be able to see the potential that good writing could produce.

So the question comes down to this, do you think Blizzard can give them some good writing, as a race.

(Genn gets attention, I’ll let everyone else decided if it is good writing, but it mostly to “this guy who happens to be Worgen, but that doesn’t really matter.”

47

Considering how Integral the Goblins have become to the Horde it does feel that the Worgen have been left well behind.

Especially the heritage quest chain stripping out the Flavor of the Race if favor of a more human aesthetic and killing off any hope for any interesting future developments.

Sadly without a fundamental shift in the writing I doubt anything good will come for them.

5 Likes
48

Well, hard to say.

On one hand blizzard stories are not completely always bad. IMO the narrators are good when it comes to the short format: individual quest lines, specific character interactions, strories for the cinematics, or the ones told within a single dungeon / scenario.

However, even zone-wide ones already struggle and are rarely praised. Yes, Spires of Arak story was good. But the rest are hit or miss. Some of Stormheim is interesting, and some is meh. Some of Nazmir and Drustvar was interesting, and some is so-so. In the Shadowlands in the main campaign I struggle to call a single one of them which I would really like to replay to find extra clues, etc. Maybe Revendreth is close-ish, but even that had enough places that made me scratch my head.

Stories that are longer than 1 patch - those are exceptionally rare to have positive comments.

However, I doubt the devs are willing to accept “the Purpose” and consider “refactoring” their narration to be episodic on a patch to patch scale, and use their resources to deeply explore a single theme within one (kind of like Throne of Thunder patch, but not as shallow, I’d say), have a proper narrative structure, and clear, possibly open when necessary, ending.

That would’ve been a decent start IMO. However, that would not address the other problems with the story that I see frequently brought up all over the different social media (“the world is the main character” with follow ups of the events, perspectives of different races, etc. vs. “following the dev selected cast of heroes”; a lot of different topics briefly touched vs. exploring a fewer but in depth; focus on continuity vs. “if a story is good it does not matter if it does not fit canon”).

In order to address those it would require a big shift in the mentality / approach to the story and narration in the game. Which to me suggests that the most likely chance to get more than surface level alterations, would be something like what happened with the remakes. To get (probably) a good D2 remake it required to replace the W3 remake one team. Sure, there might be more to the story, but that’s what it looks like on a surface.

Blizz story team showed time and time again that they are limited in what and how they do, as well as not willing to pay attention to the feedback (there is a big difference between “write exactly what the players say” and making sure that the players do see what the devs wanted to say, or that if the audience do not want to buy a product, maybe there might need to be a research on what would be possible to sell; sometimes ideas, however loved by their creators, can make a commercial product worse for the end-users)

gl hf

1 Like
49

To be fair the Goblins were a much more fleshed out concept. Hell the Undermine is on Metzen’s very first rough draft of Azeroth. And though officially neutral, they were often seen around the Horde more often. So their inclusion felt long overdue.

Whereas with the Worgen I was confused by their announcement. They had gotten a bit more spotlight in some Grizzly Hills content and I incorrectly assumed there must’ve been some Blue only quest content there setting this up.

It really does feel to me like Blizz caved to fan pressure to include a legit monstrous race on the Alliance. But apparently they did this very begrudgingly and have been spiteful of the race every since.

Like maybe I’m missing a goldmine of Worgen content somewhere but there’s not that much in Cata, and I at least couldn’t find any in MoP & WoD though I’ve not played that Blueside post revamp so I could be missing something.

Hell and in Legion while there’s some Worgen stuff in Stormheim it’s more reactive to Sylvanas then them trying to accomplish a goal unique to them. And then there’s more Gilneans in Val’Sharrah but they’re of course just humans. And really they ought to think about hiring new architects. Apparently gothic architecture is to undead what lamps are to moths.

So it just seems we’ve this race Blizz didn’t want to include and doesn’t want to write for. Genn’s pretty relevant but paradoxically he’s the most human feeling member of the human cast. Because he can be belligerent and stubborn about things.

So to me he seems less like a curse afflicted man on the edge, and more like how you’d reasonably expect a traumatized aging Commander to behave. And even he misses out.

Like him and Saurfang are both old soldiers who’ve buried their sons, seen their countries burn, and struggle with magic blood lust. Seems like there was a ready made connection there. But nah let’s have the 17 year old anime protagonist turn up. Can’t sleep on an excuse to have Anduin appear noble and wise.

17 Likes
50

There was no fan pressure to include a monstrous Alliance race. Cata was announced and the worgen were met with a resounding “Wait, whaaaaaa-” from every corner of the internet. And endless threads about how they really should’ve been a Horde race because they were set up to be beastial and savage etc… etc… And the community that did ultimately form around the race only partially embraced that idea to begin with. The rest just want to be bipedal Labradors.

Add in their heritage quest which doubled down on the idea that Blizzard sees them as fundamentally just humans with a skin condition and, yeah, I don’t see anything changing for them for quite awhile. Not that I think the whole “fighting against your inner beast” shtick would’ve really worked, back then or even now. Void elves have something similar going on where every other NPC you meet is some degree of cackling nut job. But… the legions of PCs are just standing around the auction house or the mailbox chilling like anyone else. For the idea to carry any real weight with players it would have to effect gameplay and that just isn’t the sort of experience WoW wants to be. Or has ever been tbh.

2 Likes
51

Certainly disagree there. With the Forsaken even the most mundane ones still manage to be pretty spooky. They’re always up to some mad scientist shenanigans. Plus they eat people a lot which is fun.

Ya cut to the Worgen and man they don’t get to do anything spooky. I lurk around Duskwood a lot and had been so curious what the deal with that laboratory at Raven’s Hill was. There’s a pillory affixed with a bloodied guillotine blade, placed over a well for one would assume self explanatory reasons.

And I finally get there and nothing dubious is happening. They’re just rehabilitating feral worgen. Who they put in that execution device so I thought they’d at least use it to off Worgen they couldn’t save. But if that is the case it never happens nor is it implied. Meaning it is just a wildly unsafe way to restrain the mentally unwell. Which is just more criminally negligent than scary.

Like just let them be the Alliance’s morally dubious faction. Ought to have at least have one. Because as it stands they’re basically just Chimney Sweeps with fursonas. Which I’m sure is right up a certain audience’s ally but I think a Victorian horror angle would have broader market appeal.

9 Likes
52

Amazingly well put.

2 Likes
53

To answer the titular question, yes. Easily.

Lillian Voss reveals that the forsaken are in posession of a blight neutralizing agent. The forsaken agree to exchange the agent for Lordaeron. Stormwind agrees, but Genn is dissatisfied and can’t imagine returning to Gilneas with undead once again on the doorstep, so approves a Gilnean covert operation to steal the formula before the treaty is finalized. The plot is revealed, possibly even failed, killing off an important character (preferably Calia, but probably Lilian). The treaty remains intact however because both parties cannot afford it falling apart. However, peace in Silverpine was never an option.

The Forsaken return to Undercity, and the Worgen return to Gilneas. The cities are used as faction respective quest hubs for a portion of the next expansion, or prepatch.

1 Like
54

Yes, worgen, like other puppers, can be fixed.

1 Like
55

Actually got me to chuckle… but I’m certain even Blizzard’s watered-down form they show the Alliance would tear your throat out if you tried something like that. :slight_smile:

56

I still can’t get over the fact that Blizzard didn’t give them fluffy tails.
Why no tail?!

4 Likes
57

Probably the same reason WotC didn’t give Dragonborne tails in D&D 5E.

:pancakes:

1 Like
58

They forgot dragons and wolves have tails apparently :wolf:

3 Likes
59

The Art department and Lore Departments didn’t.

Only reason they didn’t give in-game models tails is because they didn’t want to deal with the rendering problems it would cause. So, Laziness is the reason.

1 Like
60

I actually prefer my werewolves without tails. Them having tails make them too much of an “just anthro wolf” and it takes away the fantasy.

3 Likes