I don’t mind the council… what annoys me is that the Undead and Blood Elves have a seat. I recall them both allying with the Horde, but can someone remind me of what they actually joined the Horde proper? And now we have Arthas’ sister who is for all intents and purposes an Alliance figurehead as one of our councilors?
I signed on with the Horde to get away from the Alliance. I don’t enjoy that “refined” fantasy. Give me the brutes just trying to survive - that’s my Horde.
GIVE US THE MOK’NATHAL, I WANT MY HALF-OGRE LOOK! Seriously, Rexxar’s racial leader, it’s such an easy give-me race.
Tuskar, murlocs, ogres
Calia is about as much as an Alliance figurehead as Baine is. She’s dedicated to helping her people first and foremost, and that means joining the Horde so she can help them. She doesn’t even want to be Queen, but Lilian Voss is pushing for it and Calia has the charisma and empathy to kind of heal the heartbroken, betrayed Forsaken. There’ll always be Sylvanas stans, but they need someone who has a semi-legitimate claim to the leadership and Calia isn’t like Arthas or even Terenas. She was never going to inherit the Throne and people knew her as their cute Princess socialite. She’s a person that they all remember if they’re Lordareon humans who had a position of Rulership but a non threatening/controlling one. They just probably see their princess who’s just like them now, and was never one to look down on them.
And let’s face it, we’ve fought together more than we’ve fought each other at this point. We can’t escape each other. I don’t think Orcs and Humans are going to be buddies any time soon, but I think we’ll be more inclined to not murder each other and set aside our differences to murder other, angrier, more violent things perhaps at an acceptable social distance.
These two guys managed to set aside their differences so maybe there’s hope for the future
No Elves are not the sqeaky wheel.
They never were.
It’s all because Blizzard cannot decide whether they want to give High Elves or not to the Alliance.
First they said lol join the Horde.
Then they silently added a few options.
Now they’re adding more options.
Why all this unnecessary waste of time pretending like you’re doing something? If you want to add something just do it instead of prancing around pretending this is not the same.
Probably because it involves more work than flipping a switch that allows a model to have something.
Do you mean “when?” What doesn’t seem to fit here. For the undead it was between wc3 and vanilla. The forsaken were definitely the late comers. If I remember correctly I think some of the horde quests actually involved “helping new allies” or some such.
The elves were (rightfully) unhappy with their treatment by humans after the fall of Quel’thalas. Seeing as one of their heroes now lead the forsaken, and the forsaken are actually the same citizens of Lordaeron, it was just natural diplomacy. It just happened between vanilla and BC.
As stated, they are still the citizens of Lordaeron. She is the rightful heir of Lordaeron, well maybe her child is, but of the undead citizens surely.
Those events were specified as alliances of conveniences. Neither were members of the Horde proper until… the writers rotated out and this detail was forgotten and suddenly the Horde is led by a former Alliance hero and committing genocide in her name because they also only have a surface level understanding of the Horde as the “bad guys.”
Edit: The same is also true of Night Elves, for what it’s worth. Somewhere along the line, this detail was forgotten, and we get Night Elves in full Stormwind guard gear doling out quests.
What would require them to join proper? Thrall just accepted them into the Horde.
Also I want ghost Loa Vol’jin as Warchief and Warchief’s blessing back. Wanting to be away from the Alliance is why I don’t want a council.
Also, I hate Calia. She seems fake.
Being asked to join and accepting seems like a good place to start. This ship has long since sailed, however.
The Horde allied with Undead and Blood Elves. That did not make the Undead and Blood Elves members. Just as I wouldn’t consider Canada to be Belgian just because NATO is headquartered in Belgium.
But I disgress - this is a point that I will cease to bemoan here, because the writers themselves lost that distinction and have been writing them as full members of the Horde for over a decade now.
No we were full members because we were never considered an allied race. Just races within the Horde. Storywise they had Sylvanas recommend us. The Horde consider, Lor’themar consider. Then a decision was made.
Aesthetically the Forsaken fit more than us. But I’m trying for more monster customizations, trust me. 
So you have hated to be part of the faction since the lauch of the MMO?
Weird the lenghts people go for a game.
As a matter of fact, it did man. Horde is built like an empire, all the members stop being independent nations and just become part of the Horde (reason why the Warchief had power like an emperor).
Are you saying you want the Horde to become even more Alliance lite, with the “but the races aren´t really united and just independent nations that schedule time to discuss commonly benefitial stuff et al?”
I thought you were “core Horde”.
My main gripe is that both tainted the image that Thrall was striving for. Undead were and are plain evil. Blood Elves resorted to consuming the same energy that condemned the Orcs. Both are just flagrantly in opposition to what was built during WCIII.
I don’t agree exactly on the part of the Blood Elves because they were set on a pace to have the well cleansed and away from feeding off of mana wyrms and space wind chimes. Despite the lore, only a certain sect of elves fed off of fel. The majority were only exposed to it via it powering Silvermoon.
And post TBC Belves haven’t done anything that has gone against Thrall. Not anymore than they’ve let the rest of the Horde do. Which is another gripe of mine.
Now Forsaken. I’m sure Thrall hoped they were done experimenting on humans and such. But well, those quests Sylvanas sent us on were not indicative of that.
But I don’t think Blizz had the idea from the start to have the new Horde be just a bunch of good guys that always agree with each other. They were made of different groups of people that were all misfits of some sort or outcasts of another.
The Horde of WarCraft III and modern WoW are fundamentally different in too many ways, in a way that can’t be said for the Alliance who are fundamentally unchanged.
And Blood Elves on the Horde side (just as Undead joining with Horde and Night Elves with the Alliance) is just utterly contrived, no matter how much they have justified it. Just look at all the hoops they’re jumping through with Void Elves to appease a crowd that never should have been disappointed in the first place.
With your points about the forsaken this is 100% true. Especially as the game has progressed over the years the horde has often been portrayed as the “bad guy.” WoW as founded was a lot better formed as being morally gray.
Here you are wrong. The basis for elves not being in the alliance was set with the warcraft 3 expansion and the Kaelthas storyline. They explicitly abandoned their alliance with the other races at this time due to the abuses of Garithos. Kael (their undisputed leader at the time) and his lieutenants were literally jailed. This is why they threw in with Illidan and Vasj and went to outland. You can argue they don’t belong in the horde since they went to outland as allies of Illidan, but they definitely told the alliance to screw itself.
The argument that neither fits within the horde is true, but as allies of Undercity, they would naturally ally with the horde. Your problematic link here is the forsaken. If you play through the quests back in the day it always felt like they were trying to get something over on the broader horde. This came to a head at the wrathgate in WOTLK.
This is actually more about legitimizing the few (still blue eyed) high elves they had floating around the alliance since vanilla. People have used this as an argument to get these elves as alliance players for over a decade. It just took this long.
The thing is, it did not start out this way. There was a Naruu being imprisoned and drained in a basement when BC was released so paladins had access to the light. Kael was still considered part of the aristocracy, though currently absent. This is when the elves officially joined the horde. This fits fine with the morality of the undead, but not so well with how the horde was set up in wc3.
The Belves had already left the Alliance before WoW. They had left before in WCII while they were still Helves. Anyone hopeful for them playable Alliance side did so despite the story. Because there were still a few Helf NPCs. And it’s been 15 years.
The race never really belonged to them. No Elves were really committed to anyone.
I was referring to how Blizz had the story mapped out. Them feeding off the Naaru to survive, then the well becoming cleansed happened in the same expac so that the Horde got Paladins.
YES please! I would love more troll options. <3