If I recall correctly, some horde players tried to hold onto that to have a reason to get invested at all, until one of the short stories came out and wrote that alliance researchers were attacked by goblins first.
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Which is really unnecessary in the grand scheme of things. Goblins were mining the wound of Azeroth. I feel like the Alliance doesn’t need much more justification than that.
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Annoyingly yeah, but I think Borcan was trying to scrounge up some justification for the horde player to not feel like a piece of crap. Or at least, that’s what I thought he was trying to do. I was just pointing out that the player didn’t even get that much.
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Yeah, the problem with the whole, “Oh, Teldrassil was revenge for Silithus” is that the goblins were, in fact, mining the literal blood of the planet. After surviving a war against a demonic army fel-bent on blowing up said planet, this shouldn’t even have been a point of contention between the two factions.
Which is why Magni does actually bother to approach both factions about this problem.
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You’re factually wrong. Zandalari didn’t want to Conquer Pandaren, they wanted to take over land that Mogu promised them before they were overthrown by Pandaren.
They simply wanted to enforce the agreement.
And I am also disgusted how Chronicles tried to portray Azshara as noble vhick in front of trolls when she was the one who was incredibly agreswive and wanted to purge the world from all the species she saw unworthy.
Trolls aren’t the nicest guys but so long you won’t try to take over their stuff they can coexist just fine.
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its obivious what happened, sylvanas played the horde for her war, its obivious in the book and the game, the horde players just dont want to admit they got played, probably cause most of them where looking forward to a war. So when they find out that the story is a anti war story they feel personally attacked
Some of us are quite aware we got played. The Horde has a pretty rotten history of getting played by their apparent leaders, starting with Ner’zhul and Gul’dan all the way to Sylvanas. There were probably more instances of it before that as well in terms of individual orc clans.
I’d like to think that the formation of a council is the Horde finally learning but… Well, let’s face it. If Blizzard decides to run another faction war at some point, which they likely will after a couple xpacs, who do you think is going to be their villain bat whipping boy?
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They didn’t want to conquer the area they knew wasn’t controlled by the Mogu anymore? That’s still conquest. Did you forget they were planning on betraying the Mogu anyway?
They did not move immediately. Internal debate raged int he Zandalari capital of Zuldazar about whether the territory should be taken by diplomacy or force.
In the end, it was a descendant of the great high priest Zulathra who made the strongest case. His name was Mengazi, and he knew that the Pandaren would be unlikely to honor the Zandalari’s agreement with the mogu. The former slaves had also overthrown their masters, and as such, they could be strong enough to mount a fierce resistance against the trolls if given time to prepare. To succeed in claiming their land, the trolls would need to strike without warning and with enough force to shatter the pandaren’s will.
Trying to alpha strike a nation of ex-slaves to take land they were going to take from people they were going to betray anyway is conquest whether or not they thought they deserved it. Simple fact.
Simply not true and we can look at a lot of conflicts to see that (Night Elf Empire, but also Arathorian humans (before the Troll Wars) and Stormwind humans (with the Gurubashi not related to the Troll Wars fighting at all)). Not only that but their basic descriptions as savage compared to the Dark Trolls wanting peace and avoiding conflicts.
Except that none of the nations considered the combat in Silithus (started by whoever) as having started a war. Same as with Genn’s attacking Stormheim. They keep saying, Horde and Alliance, they still are not at war.
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I’m not sure which Chronicles you read, but Volume I very much establishes Azshara’s rampant xenophobia and expansionism.
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It’s stupid that the Horde get to both genocide the Night Elves AND save them aswell, after basically ruining the Night Elves in BFA they should at least get to be the ones who save them exclusively. The fact the Horde races can is disgusting imo.
Yeah, one thing I am pretty disgusted with is how far night elves have fallen.
I guess Blizzard forgot that this was a people who–on their own and without official Alliance aid, mind you–rallied together the Ancients to drive an army of Fire Elementals and Twilight Dragons out of their mountain, before then mounting a (successful) assault on the Firelord himself, in his own domain.
Cataclysm and Vanilla-era Kaldorei are shaking their heads in shame at their future selves.
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In all fairness? BfA was a continuation of something that’s been going on for years with NEs. Nothing is actually -new- about it lmao its just something you’d hope they’d never go so far on. They started ripping apart the core fantasy of Night Elves arguably in 2004.
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the horde, cause seeing what I read on the fourms, most horde posters dont seem to have learned the lesson of mop and bfa
the player is doing this, and guess what dude, you have no idea who does it, its literally only a choice thing, a horde player that does ardenweald, literally doesnt effect you
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Let me put it this way, things are being made out so it could be alliance characters (Turalion) could start the next war but, if Alliance players raise a stink, Blizzard might once again cave and make the Horde get the villain bat again. I will also say that if Horde get villain batted again, any cries of “Horde Bias”, or at least those that seem to ignore the fact that the alliance always comes out on top in the end should be called out for what they are: cries of selfish children who think they should get the good story AND the good items.
So to you it is disgusting that Horde races, some of which were railroaded into that genocide, are going to be able to make it up to the Night Elves if they want? This is the issue some have with Alliance players, they think Horde players ask, or want, the story we get and as such want to punish Horde players for things the writers do. It just goes to show how some alliance players want the Horde to be villains and unable to break away from it on a level that is closer to home, I.E. personal RP.
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Yeah, the Horde can’t be good if they aren’t allowed to do good things.
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I am a night elf, and I approve this message.
But then again, my people got screwed over by the Alliance just as much as we did by the Horde, so…
It’s disgusting from a narrative perspective Alliance have to ‘share’ the glory of saving Night Elf souls from eternal torment with the faction responsible for it in the first place. This is just Horde getting their cake and eating it to, getting to both genocide one of their enemies with no consequence and then saving them when they decide what they did was wrong.
Imagine if in Shadowlands we see Arthas in a happy Afterlife, friends with all the Blood Elves he killed and is all like, “Oh hey, I’m a changed person now, I caused a lot of suffering in my lifetime so now I’m spending my afterlife helping the people I murdered”.
Now show me a single Blood Elf fan who wouldn’t find that completely tone deaf and insulting.
This is just insulting though, it’s basically a way for them to ‘fix’ what they’ve done without ever having to own up to the fact their faction is responsible for genocide.“Oh hey, we may have wiped out a majority of your race but don’t worry, we saved their souls from eternal torment, not need to thank us”.
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I see a lot of Alliance posters who are tired of being the ones who are constantly getting punched in the nuts and having no real retaliation against the Horde. They seem to be quite willing to do their own genocide bombing of Org or TB.
Is it really too much to ask for the Alliance to start the offensive next time Blizzard gets the Horde vs Alliance itch?
True. I wonder if this is the route they were originally intending for Varian during his angry days of Wrath, or with Jaina through MoP, WoD, and Legion. Villain-bat Turalyon though? Mr. Paladin-Chuck-Norris himself? HA! That’ll be the day.
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The hell are you talking about. Alliance haven’t ‘come out on top’ in BFA, the war ended in a stalemate, we gained no new land, we lost a ton of land and a whole starting zone, we got an entire race designated as nothing but a punching bag, our army is pretty much non-existent now. Alliance as a faction are 100% worse off then in Legion.
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That’s called repentance, dude.
I definitely think the narrative needs to be handled better in terms of “when do we kill each other, when do we not?”
Saurfang’s “We is breaking the Cycle” was taken seriously by no one on either side precisely because we’ve heard it all before…shortly before we end up declaring war on each other all over again. Even NPCs in Boralus can be heard cynically claiming, “These ceasefires…never last.”
Not to mention that for all of Jaina’s “We’re different this time,” yeah, it is still Blizzard instigating faction war after faction war with some major “blow up City X” genocide to ramp up the numbers (ignoring, of course, the whole point of Reign of Chaos in the first place).
I do think a massive faction-redemption questline could be done, and done well, if it were handled properly. Of course, Blizzard seems to be less willing to put effort into that kind of meaningful message vs. continuing to turn players against one another…
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