yeah i can buy that if blizzard did a better job at portraying that we were running out of forces, that doesn’t make it suck any less.
i mean, i get it, so many wars in such a short period of time makes sense.
Or they’re destroyed to revolve around Anduin’s worldview. See: Moira, Falstad, Muradin, Shandris
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You can tell a similar story with a different character and not have it hit the same story beats. It could even end with a different conclusion, with Anduin being more lost at the end than he was before as opposed to the relative stability that Jaina seems to have gained.
Although I don’t think Jaina’s popularity grew or waned thanks to her recent turn in the spotlight. Even so, I still think a test of faith is just the kind of ‘shock to the system’ a straight laced character like Anduin could benefit from.
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Ei, if anything they are actually keenly aware there are toons of thing that want them all dead. Certainly at least before the end of BfA they knew Ashzara and N’zoth was still out there.
I mean…is it? I’ve played since WC1. I would never once have pegged this genre as tween fantasy. Juvenile metal fantasy, sometimes…
That said, there is such a thing as good tween fantasy, which is typically because it has complex characters who feel real. Anduin is the bad side of tween fantasy, with his perfect moral clarity, mega-super powers, pin up looks, and inability to ever be wrong…at seventeen years old. I mean, those characteristics are ridiculous in any character…but have you ever met a seventeen year old boy?
That said, people like what they like. I don’t like absurdly perfect characters, regardless of genre. Others enjoy them. But to me, you can’t want to have Anduin as High King and want a complex story for the Alliance unless you are willing to complicate him. A lot.
As a sidenote, you are almost directly quoting Sylvanas’ argument to Saurfang.
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I think illidan is the most tween fantasy character in wow especially in legion
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Honestly I like him, I think he’s an interesting character in his own way, but then I tend to “read” the characters the way that makes sense to me. I ignore a fair amount of in-game stuff because of that – his flaws don’t really spring from the basic characterization he has, they conflict with it. I think if the writers wrote the characters in a way that made sense from a story and characterization perspective rather than for the needs of the game and gameplay, we’d get better characters and deeper, richer stories, but possibly a worse game.
That said, I think it’s ridiculous he’s High King at his age. Clearly Tyrande should be leading the Alliance. clears throat
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Do you not think this expansion would have been better if the alliance fought with Sylvanas’s logic?
shrugs It’s not wrong. Attempting to exterminate a civilian population was a moronic strategy however that only drives your enemy to survive because it’s that or extinction. Anduin is still an idiot who didn’t press the advantage and remove their ability to fight and it cost the Alliance. We went from winning this war to having less of an army than the Horde even with some of it lost to a rebellion, he’s a screw up.
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I mean some teens boy are good looking, some are actually pretty moral maybe even to a fault and idealistic. And as I mentioned we have things like Dragon Prince and Avatar proving such stories can be quite popular even beloved by a relatively adult audience.
Not neccesarily. Using the Dragon Prince(i love that show to death) the human princes, Ezren and Callem, are hardly complicated characters. The situation they get into are complicated. And that actually made them interesting characters.
I would kill for questions like this to get answered during the once a decade lore Q&A sessions.
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In the context of WoW? Isn’t it? We find quite a few ghosts and dead people wanting the right thing done. An oath honored, someone that broke a promise to have revenge taken upon them for that reason alone, an apology to be passed on.
It might not matter to the Forsaken, but they’re a special case. One ghost we talk to asks that you free his men. To hell what happened with him, his soldiers suffered more and he wants you to free their spirits.
These are all, notably, dead people.
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I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. If the suicide mission people came back to see what had be made of their sacrifice they’d probably be more than a little pissed off.
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The point I’m making is that “morals mean nothing to the dead” is a false statement, or at least a highly complex idea that can’t be covered in a statement like that with any sort of accuracy.
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I really don’t get why you think using a random animated TV show made for children is applicable for Warcraft. First Warcraft is far older than both those shows and has its own story built around lots of different charcters, its story spans generations. Second Its also a completely different medium for delivering content especially with those shows are focus on sole protagonist like the “dragon Prince” or the “avatar”.
Warcraft isn’t called the “High King” nor is it supposed to be all focused around Anduin. It has a player base that want to be involved in the story and not following in Anduins coat tails. There are also other character players are more invested in. The reason BFA has been so poorly received as they have tried to make this expac focused around Anduin. Plus their wait an see approach to the story telling has been abysmal, it doesn’t work in a MMO setting.
The is also a 2 faction game where we are all supposed to be champions and heros. In those shows there only really the good guy faction and the bad guy and the Good guy always wins in the end and wipe out the bad guys, we can never get that in game. I mean If avatar is anything to go by the different Nations take turns in being bad guys, Maybe the Alliance should go bad guy for a while.
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- have you see WoW rating? Apperently its suitable for anyone age 12 and up.
- Just because Avatar/The Dragon Prince is sutable for kids doesn’t mean it is not deep/a good reference point even for WoW.
Warcraft is however a “character focused” experience, and said experience also happens to have an esemble cast. Same with the shows I mentioned. Your right the medium is different but considering a good chunk of the really important story beats are told in a fairly cinematic manner.
Anduin aside from his involvment in the beginning and end of the faction war has been hardly an important presence. If anything Jaina and Genn probably has more lines and more scenes then him.
Using again Dragon Prince/Avatar as a reference point you actually have to wait months/years before story pay off unfold. Wait and see can work and even if it doesn’t it is not like Blizzard will suddenly change they method of delivering story content.
Both the Air Nomads and Water Tribes were ever hardly bad guys. At worse, certain people in said tribes were evil. Hell, WoW has more in common with said shows then you probably care to admit. Especially with their “war is bad” message. Both shows have probably manage to excel WoW at that, but that is partially due WoW having to always have two factions.
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My point was that the universe has been around for 20 years odd it has fans that vary in age. Them writing the story for 10 year olds isn’t going to help retain their player base.
They are TV shows not games, They are focused on a specfic charcter with a supporting cast. That isn’t wow and the fact they keep trying to write Warcraft like a novel or show is why BFA is considered one of the worst written expansions.
Warcraft is supposed to be a player focused experince, if it was all about Anduin and co then there is no reason to subscribe to the game and we can just go watch the story on you tube. If there is no agency for the player there is no reason to play. Again this is part of the reason why players are so frustrated by the direction of the writing.
True this story was about the Horde, However Anduin is a plot device the writers are using to rob the alliance of any story. He basically directs us the player to not hurt the Horde as we need to break the cycle.
Thats my point I don’t want to wait years to see any pay off for Teldrassil, I want that story resolved now while its current content. Blizzard have a habit of brushing story threads under the carpet because they aren’t good enough writers to resolve the properly. Instead they hide behind their new expac and hope everyone forgets.
Sure the shows have a good story because the medium suits the writing of the story. they have a heroic protagonist that will overcome and defeat the bad guy. We aren’t ever gonna defeat the horde instead we always get beaten down and they use Anduin as an excuse to forgive the Horde.
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The shows I mentioned are not just for 10 years. To the point it feature quite a few death scenes. If nothing else the level of violence is on par with WoW more cartoony violence.
We have never had much if any agency in WoW story! the most agency we have is to pick up a quest or not. The story of WoW has always had a predefined patch.
That is hardly true. He wants to direct our anger at the right people. And more importantly he prefer we follow how say Uther version of fighting. Vengeance not being part of what makes us fight.
WoW has been like that since at least BC. With a good chunk of focus going to Maiev. Even more so when it was Wrath and the story was being centered around core cast for said expansion.
Then you are setting yourself up for disappointment because for many threads they will never do that. It took years before we ever actual got to Argus, at least 3 expansion before Jaina’s arch got to its destination. I always refer to Kosak post because even now it still ring’s true:
Hell just change Thrall to Saurfang and voila:
If you’re a die-hard Alliance player, I can understand if you feel left out of Thrall’s story arc. Saurfang feels like “their guy,” and Saurfang’s journey over the last couple of years may not feel like “your” story, even if his mistakes are about to send the whole world into a potential death spiral. Fair enough. Stick with Thrall as he fulfills his destiny at the end of BfA, and I promise we’ll catch up with other characters – from both factions – as we pick up the pieces in the aftermath.
Anduin is a plot-device being used to justify the fact that you cannot destroy the Horde; an entire Player Faction comprising half the playerbase. He’s a tool, nothing more … the facilitate that realty. I’m not sure why some Alliance players seem to have such unrealistic expectations … or why many of those players seem to operate under the thought process of: “We know the Horde players aren’t to blame for this story, and they don’t deserve to be punished. But … if they could just be punished for our satisfaction, that be great!”
The Alliance gets “beaten down” … in that they lost the initial battle they had to lose to solidify the Horde as the antagonists of BfA, then the Horde lost every single other engagement after that. We gained nothing from this conflict; had our entire Faction Identity smashed into the ground; Had several of our Racial Fantasies irreparably damaged; Lost even more of our dwindling developed cast of characters; and had to have the Alliance come in and save us from ourselves, again … for what amounted to pushing the personal narrative a single character.
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To a certain degree i think it is time the Horde, particular the warmongering side of the Horde, got irreperable damage. This is mostly focus on the orcs/forsaken but they cant keep claiming to be innocent victims of the Alliance while constantly attacking it.
In the forsaken case, I’d say their Sylvanas cult of personality was long overdue to be destroyed.