Recently had a GM clean out the guild bank of all items; Epic Gems, enchanting mats, Marks of the Illidari, ALL raid mats and various items that were contributed by raid teams and guild members. The items were supposed to be for guild use. Took it all so he could, presumably, transfer realms with items instead of actually having gold because of the transfer limit.
I’ve seen and heard conflicting accounts, is this allowed? He had unique access that most members of the guild did not as we didn’t even have access to withdraw from some of the tabs. I mean clearly it’s done in bad faith and might as well be considered scamming if you spent months asking/telling people they had to contribute the items from raids for “guild use” only to swipe them for yourself.
I have to agree with zungar while its a jerk move the GM has every right to do what he pleases with the Guild bank a Game master wont step in unless a comprimise has happened.
Yes, it is allowed because the Guild Master, regardless of the original founder, is the sole owner of the guild. While it is a garbage action, they are still acting within the intended parameters of game functionality, and as such are allowed to take whatever they want as long as they have access to it. You can try to submit a ticket about it but I am certain you will be turned away because Blizzard is largely hands-off with guild affairs.
So what’s there to stop someone from doing this behavior repeatedly? How is this any different from someone giving you items to craft them something only to keep the items yourself? You gave items with the expectation of getting something back in return and instead they took it for themselves.
What is there to stop someone from creating a guild, running it until they’re satisfied then looting the guild bank and starting over to do it again?
I understand that the guild belongs to the GM but at what point does it become scamming other players for personal gain?
Unfortunately, it happens all the time. It doesn’t matter in Retail or Classic, there are always these people who will take advantage of others.
In a perfect world, you join or create a guild with friends. If that isn’t an option, you shop around for a guild. While I know there are some decent ones out there, mass invite guilds rarely work out. On my realm, it being so populous, it seemed like we were forever seeing people warning folks in chat or on the forums that X created a guild, asked all members to donate Y amount of gold upon accepting the invite. Sometimes these guilds hung around long enough to get a full 500 (I think that was the limit?) people recruited. Guild banks were stacked full of mats and gold, and then poof - they and all of it were gone and the guild disbanded or deleted.
It’s kind of on us as players to know who we’re joining up with. There is nothing stopping a GM from doing this, I’m afraid. Once gold or mats are donated to the guild bank - they belong to the GM by virtue of it being their guild bank under the guild they have ownership of.
Is there any chance the Guild Leader’s account may have been compromised? If so, I’d put in a ticket to have a GM take a look. If it was a third party doing it, then there’s a chance it can be undone.
But if it really was the guild leader, then the only real thing stopping them is the reputation that will follow them from such a dispicable action.
No, alas they’re just a douchebag who took everything for himself. Still feels like it should be considered scamming since it was “guild mats” for “guild use” specifically.
I mean, it is scamming. If I put my money in a bank in real life and they just take it for personal use?? It’s theft, doesn’t matter who owns the bank.
Somehow we just allow this behavior. Even by Blizzard’s own rules. It’s one thing to take “too much” that’s a bit subjective, but to take EVERYTHING after Master Looting all of the BoE drops in a raid? How is that not the same as ninja looting it directly while in the raid itself?
You say you’ll split the loot but then you keep it all yourself. That’s ninja looting, just because it was from a “guild bank” instead of directly in the raid doesn’t change the principle. You took something that was supposed to be shared all for yourself.
I’d be willing to bet 90%+ of people think it’s wrong and should be punished and yet here we are. Seems dumb and I’d like to hear a response from Blizzard themselves but I suspect you’re all unfortunately correct.
In real life that money you put in a bank is in an account just for you that only you can access (like your own bank tab in WoW).
A Guild bank is a communal holding area where you donate things to the Guild bank for anyone in the guild to use. A guild owned and controlled by the Guild Master who has the rights to everything it.
There is no written agreement saying if you put in X, that you get X back or Y back. Once it goes into the guild bank it belongs to the GM.
Well yes, morally it is very scummy to do and nobody should ever join a guild with someone like that again. Sadly, it happens every day. Some people make guilds JUST to build them up, drain them, and sometimes even sell them.
Sadly this is not going to result in the items being returned to the Gbank unless there was a compromise.
Never put something in the Guild bank you can’t afford to lose if things go south. Much like the old addage never to lend money to anyone if you can’t afford them not paying it back.
Customer Support is not Customer Service. On this forum, we have our SFAs as the only Blues that come here as it’s a forum for players to assist other players. There are no Devs, GMs, QA or any other staff. So unfortunately, a Blue response is not guaranteed.
You are likely not wrong, but that doesn’t change the facts here. If you’d like to make a suggestion or properly address your feedback so that the proper staff can see it, you’ll want to submit it through the in-game suggestion tool or draft up a post for General Discussion to propose this change of policy.
The guild, the guild bank and all within it belongs to the Guild Master. That is the firm bottom line. No one forced anyone to deposit mats or gold, it is done voluntarily, no matter the intent of it.
To be honest It’s not even about the items it’s about the behavior. If taking everything contributed by 50+ people for yourself because there’s no rule that says you can’t is allowed then what’s the point?
People should not be allowed to be this scummy.
You can report griefing, you can report scamming and you can report ninja looting, but somehow this is okay? Why is scamming/taking from people en mass allowed but it’s reportable if it’s a 1-on-1 interaction or done in a party/raid setting?
Like I said, I know you’re all probably right that Blizzard won’t do anything but it’s ridiculous. Maybe I’ll go mention it on another forum but I truly don’t think it would make a difference to Blizzard.
Also
submit it through the in-game suggestion tool
Absolutely could not figure out how to submit anything in game. That tool is horrible so I ended up here, it was easier.
I mean, there’s only ten thousand+ people on a server nowadays. Doesn’t really work to socially punish someone especially when servers are that big and they did it and server swapped. Kinda need Blizzard to do it for those reason.
Griefing is a player-made term used to describe someone doing something you don’t like. Although there is a mention of it in the Code of Conduct, it’s not really enforceable.
Scamming is reportable. However, there has to be a very specific set of circumstances in order for a GM to fully investigate. Although the gold and items may be removed from the scammer, the person who was scammed will not get the items or their gold back.
Not really. With the advent of Personal Loot, ninja looting is a thing of the past. In fact, I’d argue if it really was a thing. If you’re referring to Master Looter, then it is up to the person assigned to that role to distribute loot appropriately. MS > OS is not a valid loot rule either. Only in instances of the rules being clearly posted would something be done about this.
These are completely different scenarios. In a Guild, everything belongs to the Guild Master. It is up to them to decide who (if anyone) has access to the items stored in the Guild Bank. In the end, if they want to take everything for themselves, they are allowed to within the rules of the game.
In a party/raid, the rules need to be clearly stated as to how loot would be distributed. If the rules are clearly stated (and not MS > OS), then the GM staff can step in. Same goes for one on one interactions.
Posting in Customer Support would not result in any potential changes, as the CS staff are not liaisons to the developers, nor can CS make any changes. You’ll need to post in General Discussion where the Community Managers can pass along suggestions. Make sure it is constructive, with no hyperbole, so the actual issue doesn’t get muddied when mixed in with other narratives.
