Every time I think I’m on the path to an interesting debate with you, you leap for insults. If you think you hate Sylvanas now (and oh boy I know you do), wait until you see what Blizzard does in two weeks.
And yes I would rather champion an established high-ranking “non-character” over a character that has no loyalty or love for the Forsaken until Blizzard decides she does and then it’s like “I’ve always loved the Forsaken”… really Lilian??? Really Necroxis?? This is good writing to you?
I prefer a character I know things about than a character I do not know things about for the leader of a race.
Uh huh.
Sorry Baal, that line of reasoning opens up so many problematic conclusions I won’t even go there.
How many people complain that Rastakhan died and they don’t even know anything about Talanji? And yet Talanji is one of the only interesting Horde characters right now.
No thanks. I would rather have interesting new characters that have believable origin stories. Calia makes no sense. Lilian makes no sense. Pick a random Forsaken NPC from Vanilla on and they would make a better leader with more a more believable character arc than Lilian or Calia.
If only the devs would use Calia as you imply - as a mere advisor- and not like the current screentime hog she is.
Arthas has NOT been relevant since good ol’ Bastion pre expac cinematic. But here it came the revelation that the Primus magic IS what basically created the Forsaken the way they are. How mant Forsaken characters were present, again?
Well dufe, between him and the son of Thrall (which Calia realistically represents as per actual racial thematics) I think the actual Human nobody is more proper.
Look at Lor’themar. He started as the Bob / Who and omg how far has he reached.
Forsaken are not allowed to be in the story or have feel-good moments, they have to still feel bad about a fictional “genocide” they had no control over 3 years after it happened. Tink-tink.
We knew a lot about Talanji from the get go:
This is not interesting. There is no time to develop such a character. Ship has sailed.
Because they decided to develop him two (2) expansions after he was introduced, and continuously developed him on and off thereafter
The writers wrote themselves into a corner with the Forsaken, but that’s the cards that have been dealt.
Uh huh. This is obscenely arbitrary on your part. We did not know anything about Talanji until those things were established in BfA. The same can be done for any new or pre-existing Forsaken character. That character is not Lilian or Calia, both characters have well-established reasons for why they should not be the Forsaken leader. Undoing those reason by writer-fiat is lazy storytelling.
?? We knew them by the time Rastakhan died
…in BfA? I know Shadowlands introduced a lot of new lore, but imagine you are 28 months ago and BfA is new business.
Do you actually think I believe Blizzard is going to be killing Sylvanas? Of course they aren’t. I said that even in this thread. The best they will do is stick her in the freezer like Illidan until they need to use her again.
I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if she became the new Jailer or Arbiter. I’d love it if she came back to life and her “good, alive” side joined the Alliance to truly piss everybody off lol.
When did I ever say anything in Warcraft is good writing. Ever? At best certain things are okay for Warcraft.
Where did they ever establish that the non-character you think would be good over an actual character, whose last arc was directly about the Forsaken’s agenda in helping other Forsaken, is high ranking?
Every single time you describe something about Lilian Voss it’s either a lie or such an exaggeration that it basically becomes one.
She’s a NPC you talked to to enter a battleground dude lol
Her role is literally Advisor of the Forsaken.
Yes, we knew everything I listed by the time Rastakhan died.
Who cares?
No seriously, who the hell cares? Talanji did not exist conceptually as a character in a fantasy narrative until they wrote her in for Battle for Azeroth.
What the hell is your actual point here? That nobody matters unless they were in Vanilla? You’ve gone so far into the weeds about this that you’ve lost any semblance of coherence.
Of course we didn’t know anything about Talanji until BfA. She was nonexistent until then.
Yes…in BfA… the same Expac that Talanji was introduced as a thing that exists
No! My point is that you can take characters with believable reasons to be the leader of their races (or invent them) and they are better than characters with pre-existing reasons for why they should not be the leaders of their race. One is new lore. The other is retconning a character’s life story to fit your new narrative.
EDIT: Reminder: Lilian Voss is a virulently anti-Forsaken character until BfA, she has no discernable reason to become Forsaekn in BfA except subterfuge, she has no pre-existing loyalty to the Forsaken or the Horde. She doesn’t even know what the Horde is really for all we know in BfA.
Calia was a character whose entire character before Legion was:
a.) Arthas’ sister
b.) Slated to be married to Neltharion.
There was no development whatsoever of her at any point at all. Even in the Arthas book she’s almost entirely glossed over.
Lilian Voss’ entire role as a Forsaken from Cataclysm until Battle for Azeroth was:
a.) Killing Scarlet Crusaders
b.) Killing the Scourge remnants.
Almost like that was the exact agenda of the Forsaken in Vanilla. And once she accomplishes her goal, she ends up joining the Horde’s war effort and then in BfA she has one of the best storylines of a newly risen Forsaken and the balance of morality vs duty of someone recently resurrected.
They gave Lilian Voss every single part of the Forsaken experience and you’re over here arguing for a non-character because you have some nonsensical hatred of her character.
Again, another lie. She literally just didn’t want to join the faction and instead enact her revenge. She never goes about saying, “I hate the Forsaken and I will fight/kill them.”
Hmmm sounds familiar to another Forsaken leader who refused to join a faction and instead work on her own to enact her revenge plot from Frozen Throne.
In life, I was raised to hate the undead. Trained to destroy them.
When I became Forsaken, I hated myself most of all.
Lilian is a character that hates the Forsaken, she hated them through most of BfA if you pay attention, and she randomly, suddenly decides after Saurfang dies to be the new leader of the Forsaken, she isn’t elected to be the leader of the Forsaken, she isn’t chosen by committee, she isn’t an obvious successor, she just chooses to be the leader. That is bad writing. That is not justifiable. That is lazy character development.
And
And here we are in the expansion after Sylvanas has left the Horde, 3 days from the patch where she presumably is Glass Box’ed from the narrative, and our most salient Forsaken character, the Talanji equivalent, is Lilian.
I’m not arguing that Blizzard didn’t make Lilian the new leader, I’m arguing that it is a terrible decision and there were many other better choices. It’s almost sad because we have been robbed of a Lilian Voss that could have been taken in so many more interesting ways. Instead she’s going to be a robotic racial leader stuck in Orgrimmar on the “council” with no role in the story at all beyond “Yes Thrall, Thank you Thrall, May I have another Mr. Thrall?”.
Lovely.