People hate him because he goes out of his way to make sure the Horde loses every war they engage in. Between Anduin stating to win the war for the alliance because that is the only way to secure peace and Baine who tells everyone he hates to be part of the mean Horde that only acts when his best friends Jaina and Anduin are about to be hurt lies miles of good story development.
Do you even realize the dimensions of Blizzard killing as many Horde characters as possible? Especially after Bfa? Do a count. I invite you. It sticks when you see that except for Varian the alliance cast has stayed undamaged since Warcraft 3. Blizzard doesenât treat the factions equal and it shows.
One time he decided that maybe turning somebodyâs brother into a bioweapon wasnât acceptable conduct.
I neither know nor care what youâre on about, but I know that âsome guy who happened to show up in a mission once and had a nameâ is not a character, let alone a Horde character.
His treason goes much deeper than that. He sabotaged the Horde since Cataclysm. If He was the leader of any other race the people would have forced him to step down by now.
Let me do it for you. I am in a good mood today.
Cairne, Volâjin, Sylvanas, Nathanos, Zaela, Garrosh, Nazgrim, Rastakhan, Saurfang, Dranosh, Grommash, the conclave of the chosen during the Zuldazar raid, Malkorok, Gallywix and many many other minor characters on the Dragon isles mostly blood elves. Blizzard has a hunger to kill as much Horde people as they can while the alliance remains unharmed.
Dude, I know this post is three years old but I also know you still read this forum.
Itâs not a stupid statement.
Cairne and Baine are not the same character and we see that with the Garrosh situation. When Cairne thought Garrosh killed his people, he challenged him to makâgora and the winner would have been the war chief. If stupid Magatha wouldnât have interfered, Cairne would have been our war chief because The Shattering implied that Cairne was winning.
Baine has never done anything like that. Would Cairne have opposed all that stuff you asked about? Absolutely. But Cairne would have done something about it. Not sneak around like a cowardly dog and do favors for the Alliance that would have got his people killed.
Baine: "Hm. My father died when he stepped up against Garroshâs madness and was helped by a member of my people. I know! The smart play here is to do the exact same thing and likely get the exact same outcome except possibly worse because now thatâs twice my people decided to try and kill the leader of the Horde over ideological differences, so after I die my people will either be made indentured servants or outright massacred to ensure loyalty!
⌠Actually, yâknow what? Letâs do this more intelligently."
Baine saw what honor got his father in the Horde, and dealt with modern problems with modern solutions.
Where is the lesson to Baine that âno really challenge them to Makâgora again itâll totes work this time and no shifty stuffâll happenâ. Especially against SYLVANAS?
The issue with Baine is that the writers havenât given him any real opportunites to be heroic; Like I appreciate the idea of having a voice of reason in a room full of hot heads, but baine just never really came together as a character who could do anything interesting.
Because he accepted a blessing from Magatha. Just⌠donât? I mean thatâs not hard.
Also youâre applying 20/20 hindsite vision to Baine. Nobody knew she was in league with the Jailer until SLs and like it was said in some book, not sure which one:
You donât have to assume sheâll have tentacle powers to assume Sylvanas is going to be an underhanded fighter in a duel. And what are you going to do if you lose the Makâgora, like Cairne did, to underhanded tactics? Garrosh didnât lose his claim to Warchief, so why would Sylvanas? Sheâd just say âoops Nathanos gave me my poison arrows today go hate on himâ and heâd have gladly soaked up the Hordeâs aggro and ran away for a bit until the Warchief of the Horde decided âokay thatâs enough leave my boy-toy alone we have wrongthink Tauren to purge.â Besides, the Forsaken would eat up any opportunity to erode trust among the living, even before the Jailer connection was made known.
Baine is capable of reading the writing on the wall and going âyeah the honorable route isnât gonna work hereâ. Part of being a good warrior after all is knowing when to pick your fights.
Again, youâre applying the readerâs logic to Baineâs character and youâre missing my point.
According to the book The Shattering, Baine and everyone around him assumed he could snap Sylvanas like a twig. He was considered one of the greatest warriors in the Horde (what a joke but whatevs.) So it was written that Baine knew he was stronger than Sylvanas and just let her do all the crap she did in Legion and BfA. And Baine had no way of knowing she would do underhanded things in a duel because nobody challenged her. They just allowed her to run wild.
Cairne was in a similar situation as Baine with a crazy war chief doing horrible things. Or he thought he was. Cairne took action. He didnât stand by and allow Garrosh to run wild.
Awkward was trying to say that Cairne and Baine were the same person and the above situation shows that was absolutely not true.
While it was certainly good, that he opposed that genocidal maniac⌠his reaction came pretty late. Like⌠really, really late. He watched her commit genocide on the night elves, the destruction of Ashenvale, darkshore and then Teldrassil, he watched her kill Alliance and Horde soldiers alike, so she could raise them again and enslave them and still went along with it. No offense, but all the fan bois, who were still shouting âPlease, oh please notice me my queen. I love you!â had a mushy brain.^^"
Why was the resurrection of Derek so much worse than all the stuff that edgy elf did before? Why was that the straw that broke the camelâs back? Thatâs why I canât take Baine very serious.
And I really donât think Cairne would have rescued Derek.
Derek was being guarded by the Forsaken. Cairne, even though he really distrusted them at first, accepted the Forsaken not only into the Horde but in Thunder Bluff. I really donât see Cairne killing members of the Horde to rescue Derek, which was a orc-killing human when he was alive.
Also, if you watch the cinematic, Baine knew that rescuing Derek would enrage Sylvanas and make her come after Thunder Bluff. Two cinematics tell us that. I refuse to believe that Cairne would have valued the life of an orc-killing human over the Forsaken and Thunder Bluff.
No, he didnât. He was stronger than her at that moment. She played doe-eyed because he was physically within reach of her and she wasnât going to defeat him without prep.
If she were at a distance and, more importantly, prepared to kill him, then things change dramatically. Baine caught her off-guard in that moment. Just because he had the advantage in that moment didnât mean that it was going to last in a full-on duel where Sylvanas was indeed prepared and willing to kill him on the spot. Again, a poison arrow or two and suddenly Baine Bloodhoof joins his father in whatever afterlife houses warriors that canât read the room. He knows sheâs prone to fighting dirty, sheâs essentially the Hordeâs spymaster. He also saw Garrosh, a man who benefitted from underhanded tactics against his own father go unpunished despite the poison being the deciding factor.
Again, Baine might have been stronger then, but once Sylvanas went totally off the deep end, even before the Jailer, he knew better than to challenge her because Sylvanas is worse than Magatha could ever hope to be when it comes to underhanded tactics.
When I say âat that momentâ, I donât mean âbecause of the Jailerâ. I mean because Baine, a physically powerful melee-oriented character, is NEXT to (and actually grappling) a character who is physically frail and relies on ranged attacks, traps, and underhanded tactics to survive fights. She is at a massive disadvantage because starting a fight then and there puts her way out of her element.
She would be a moron to decide to fight Baine where he fights best, so she did what she does best; manipulate her target to her benefit and wait to strike.
With her arms grabbed and Baine right next to her, yeah, my moneyâs on Baine. If she had time to knock an arrow and create distance? Baineâs odds drop dramatically. And thatâs BEFORE the Jailer-juice kicks in.