Button Bloat from the Perspective of a Middling Player

[Dartakan-ragnaros (Dartakan)]

You just google “your class WA” and you click on the first link to get a pack, is not rocket science.

[Cutieboosh-amanthul]

Thanks, and I very much appreciate constructive conversation from both people who agree with me and people who don’t. There is no absolute right for things like this, as it is highly subjective and there is such a broad player base that there is no “one size fits all”.

So productive debate is always good and useful

[Ärlex-moon-guard]

Game probably needs less dmg/healing buttons, less modifiers, a bit less mobility overall and more actual abilites that do things besides dmg/healing.

[Snozex-area-52]

@Cutieboosh-amanthul

I think you are projecting. The title of my post includes the words “from the perspective of a middling player” and my claim to be “above average” was surrounded in ample context that I do not believe myself to be of above average skill.

You’re entitled to think whatever you want. I also don’t really care what you think.

@Cutieboosh-amanthul

With such a broad player base, my performance is undoubtedly above average, but only in the most dry and technical sense.”

In comparison To the raiding playerbase you are below average.

@Cutieboosh-amanthul

As to your other comments in your latest post, I feel engaging with you meaningfully is pointless (79 of the 249 replies in this thread are you being vitriolic and negative towards other people), but I will attempt to.

I dont sugar coat things because that’s not how the world works.

@Cutieboosh-amanthul

You are absolutely correct: new players (and the vast majority of WoW players) are not pushing or even engaging with higher end content. You are also correct that this means they do not need Weak Auras… until they do.

There is zero entry to mid level content that requires weakauras. Zero.

@Cutieboosh-amanthul

And that last part is the point I am trying to make. There is a point in this game where you have to turn to Weak Auras (or addons that deliver similar capabilities) to meaningfully progress. This is a barrier to new players going past a certain point in the game, and given so many Weak Auras would be unnecessary if more thought was put in to game design concepts like visualization of rotations, this is a problem worthy of discussion.

Weakauras exist because people like being able to customize their UI.

Incorporating weakauras into the base game is a waste of dev time.

I’m starting to think you bought your 2900.

[Snozex-area-52]

@Mystgun-goldrinn

Finally, Snozex is judging skill from clears.
I could buy a 7/9 (at least) mythic run for gold and get it in my profile, does that make me skilled?

That’s why warcraft logs exist. As do raider io.

It’s not the fact that they are 6/9 heroic that. Made me comment. It’s the claim that 6/9 is above average for a raider when it’s not.

And to be honest anyone doing only mplus and being sub 3k is below average too.

@Mystgun-goldrinn

The average player is also not clearing normal and getting to 3k io.

Not according to ION. I’m also not counting all players because you can’t factor in players that don’t do the content.

In the scheme of people that only raid and only do mplus the op is below average.

[Elisande-earthfury]

half the buttons need cut

[Snozex-area-52]

No they don’t.

[Mystgun-goldrinn]

@Snozex-area-52

It’s not the fact that they are 6/9 heroic that. Made me comment. It’s the claim that 6/9 is above average for a raider when it’s not.

Over half of the 2nd hardest difficulty tier is above average.
Parses only compare you to others fairly if you were using the same build and gear, which is almost never the case.

In the scheme of overall players, as that’s what matters, not raiders, he is indeed above average.

[Snozex-area-52]

@Mystgun-goldrinn

Over half of the 2nd hardest difficulty tier is above average.

Inside the raiding community the most played difficulty is heroic so no the numbers show that being less than aotc is below average.

@Mystgun-goldrinn

Parses only compare you to others fairly if you were using the same build and gear, which is almost never the case.

I’m not even talking about parsing but since you brought it up that is incorrect.

It doesn’t separate based on gear or builds. It compares all demo locks with all demo locks regardless of build. It then breaks down and shows windows based on ilvl.

So if you’re grey parsing you’re grey parsing against all demo locks

@Mystgun-goldrinn

In the scheme of overall players, as that’s what matters, not raiders, he is indeed above average.

The things being mentioned don’t apply to non raiders so no they aren’t a factor. In the grand scheme of players he is average in mplus and below average in raiding.

[Paeldryth-hyjal (Paeldryth)]

@Dartakan-ragnaros

I would bet that top players are less bothered by the amount of buttons they have to deal with compared to LFR player.

That is a bet you would lose. Top players will play whatever is the strongest, and if it has significantly more buttons than other specs, they will state so.

One of the first feedbacks during the rogue rework was “stop giving us more buttons.”

[Mystgun-goldrinn]

@Snozex-area-52

It doesn’t separate based on gear or builds. It compares all demo locks with all demo locks regardless of build. It then breaks down and shows windows based on ilvl.

And that’s the issue. It only matters if you’re using max dps builds and correctly specced gear.

@Snozex-area-52

average in mplus

2.9k io is not average is M+ at all.

[Snozex-area-52]

@Mystgun-goldrinn

And that’s the issue. It only matters if you’re using max dps builds and correctly specced gear.

If you arent looking to use the proper builds and such parsing wont matter to you anyways.

@Mystgun-goldrinn

2.9k io is not average is M+ at all.

In an inflated season its not very high. Its certainly not flex worthy.

[Cutieboosh-amanthul]

What phrase is it exactly that you want me to say that will give you peace that I am not flexing? I have REPEATEDLY stated in no uncertain terms that I do not consider myself above average skill. I was not flexing, I was providing context to my post, and I was very clear about the scope and intent of providing this context.

At this point you are just being a disruptive child, so please, tell me the words you want me to say so you can be at peace and go away, because you are contributing nothing of value to any of the conversations going on in this thread.

Is it something along the lines of “Oh forgive me Snozex, I misspoke and was not clear and explicit enough in describing how garbage and terrible I am at the game. Please forgive me sir, for I am not even worthy to be in the presence of such an experienced and amazing raider as yourself.”

[Snozex-area-52]

@Cutieboosh-amanthul

What phrase is it exactly that you want me to say that will give you peace that I am not flexing? I have REPEATEDLY stated in no uncertain terms that I do not consider myself above average skill. I was not flexing, I was providing context to my post, and I was very clear about the scope and intent of providing this context.

At this point you are just being a disruptive child, so please, tell me the words you want me to say so you can be at peace and go away, because you are contributing nothing of value to any of the conversations going on in this thread.

Saying I am disruptive because you cant refute my points is cringe.

IDC what you do. I am just stating the facts.

[Targ-fenris (Targ)]

Might I suggest stop feeding the troll.

They bring nothing to the conversation. They are 100% not worth replying to, like ever.

[Mystgun-goldrinn]

Let’s use data instead of personal preference to rank people, shall we?

According to raider.io, we have his main’s stats:

	World	Region	Realm
All Classes & Roles	315,068	79,935	556
All Tanks	335,944	106,477	910
All DPS	193,245	48,814	346

Considering “All Classes & Roles”, we have a total of almost 4M runs.

He’s in the top 10% aka the 90th percentile.

Average would be around the 40th-60th percentile, but let’s pick around the 50th for simplification:

The guy at 2M 2,000,000 (KR) Epse-Aszhara is sitting at exactly 1,413.1 io.

Our OP, (US) Mooshes-Aman’thul is at 2,946.4 io. More than double the IO of the literal “average” player.

Then you mention raiding, as if 6/9H, while disregarding he is not a raider to begin with.

Using WoWProgress as reference, we have 19530 guilds ranked, the last places being 1/1N.

His positioning on it is 6/9H.

The last guild rank with 6/9H Amirdrassil is the guild ranked 11877 - (EU-Draenor) Heroes of Moria, which makes his last possible percentile the 61st.

And the top 6/9H “guild” is the team ranked 11491 - (US-Kel’Thuzad) Illicit - “[Raid] Cryptic” Team, which would put him at the 59th percentile.

Middling (as he put it himself) or right below the measured average for raiding.

Even then, raid measuring is not as objective because there are no “points” associated to each boss, only completion, so a 1/1M alone would be ranked higher than the 9/9H 9/9N person.

So, at least for the area of the game he does heavily participate in, he’s on the top 10%.
You’d never call someone like that not “above average”, based on his score alone, like you’re doing.

[Cutieboosh-amanthul]

Thanks, I was going to respond with something similar, but you did a much better job than I ever could.

Even if you lowered (raised?) the bar to “only players who have completed multiple 20+ runs” I am still statistically in the top 40%, so my statement isn’t false by any measure.

But I suspect Targ is right, at this point we are just feeding a troll who has no actual interested in having his “facts” addressed. He just wants to argue and cause trouble because it seems to be his primary form of human interaction.

In any case, it doesn’t matter. I only (very briefly and with many disclaimers) mentioned that my performance is above average as part of a broader statement to help contextualize that my feedback was coming from around the middle of the pack (rather than from either extreme), and it was only provided to contextualize the feedback.

It is so hard to respond to people on this forum (can only respond after someone else has responded first) that I am just going to stop wasting my responses on Snozex.

[Snozex-area-52]

@Mystgun-goldrinn

So, at least for the area of the game he does heavily participate in, he’s on the top 10%.
You’d never call someone like that not “above average”, based on his score alone, like you’re doing.

No one that actually takes M plus serious takes anyone under 3k IO seriously. I dont know how else to explain this to you.

[Mystgun-goldrinn]

OK, if even data won’t get over your personal feelings, there is nothing else to talk about.

[Snozex-area-52]

Has zero to do with feelings when someone claims they are above average and they arent aotc or above 3k io