I totally plan on gushing over our fav red dragon Alex 
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She’s hotter than Sylvanas anyway
I mean, she’s a dragon and who doesn’t love dragons?! 
i mean, i don’t, but i’m weird and obsessive (and I didn’t like Sylvanas either)
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It’s quite alright hun. I’ve just been fascinated with dragons and the myths surrounding them since I was a kid. It’s just something really dear to me
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The reason teldrassil is poisen is blizzards fault, they had no idea to deal with it properly after theyhad done it and still don’t know. I mean , the horde change is laughable and not worth a cent if still the horde kills nightelves in ashenvale
They refuse to let the consequences be faced such an event would have.So, this wishi washi do not help anyone to move forward, even planting a new tree will not bring back anyone or explain how the horde still hold lands in ashenvale and still kill nightelves there and no one on hordesise do anything against it. On top they failed fundemantilly on regatd of elune and tyrande for the benefit of sylvanas story and zovaal.
Before bfa and sl elune was a fanfavorit from many people, (only one example here), now she’s a symbol of false promise and failure and is a robot. Wait and see didn’t solve anything, Especialy if the new tree is planted on dragonislands.
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Honestly, in my opinion. Moving on and going a entirely new direction, which what they seem to be doing in DF is the best choice.
It’s been 4 yrs and most of us are just done rehashing the same old arguments. Nobody is changing their mind, so again, I think it’s best to move on and forge a new and different narrative
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You’re asking the Night Elf Victim Brigade to give up their favorite anthem. Not going to happen.
Killing her wouldn’t be sufficient for that crowd. I’m not even sure that an Audo Da Fe’ would satisfy them at this point.
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I know, it’s just aggravating and a creepy fetish now. It’s not going to fix the terrible story that was written and it’s just going to make the people already upset over how Sylvanas was written even more sad and or mad.
Guess it’s just me and wishing these people would go away and just stop. I know it’s not gonna happen, but one can hope they’ll give up eventually
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One of the reasons I like classic is because the lore was so grounded and everyone had their unique identities.
What attracted me to the Alliance was that each was an individual unique kingdom with their own wants and needs. Visiting each capital back in vanilla when you only had your two feet until you reached level 40 was really like going on an adventure. You went from your starting zone to the different kingdoms each one unique locations and landmarks.
Alliance was really made for individuality and council.
The Horde, I never got to identify with them as strongly in the same way but they were one unit. One warchief but each one different from the last. Orcs, Trolls and Tauren were one unit in Kalimdor and the Forsaken the third wheel. And they thrived on that honestly, Going from Durotar and all the zug zugs, drums and horns to this creepy fallen kingdom ruled by zombies was pretty cool.
MoP and BFA killed this individuality and they all became one. I can scarcely recognize what either faction has become. Now add the blatant Horde aggression, multiple destruction of landmarks, crimes and etc while Alliance just stands around helplessly while the Horde like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde keep changing personalities.
If Blizzard wants make both factions merge into one on the playerside then they need to reconcile both factions on a narrative level where both sides air out the dirty laundry.
Or do a timeskip that is hundreds of years in the future… Maybe all the main characters get stuck in a timewarp and end up in Azeroth 500 years in the future. That could be an option too maybe.
The ship has sailed on what should have or could have happened with Sylvanas or how ineffective and limp the Alliance/Night Elf response was to a holocaust. What remains is how to navigate the waters in further updates.
You forgot to switch characters. Drahliana is the contrarian, not the troll.
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you know, if you’re tired of having the discussions, that’s more than reasonable – but imputing exaggerated characteristics on the people you’re arguing with, who then do not proceed to hold them, is pretty not-productive in and of itself.
no two people have agreed what they wanted to happen to Sylvanas – which is fine, and supports the point most of us have agreed with, that this can’t be resolved in any meaningfully productive way – but none of the people have actually said they want any form of humiliation conga ending in death for her, everyone’s wanted her to preserve her dignity in some way. Just different ways.
If you are tired of having the discussion just… stop. Talk somewhere else. About other things. It’s not even as if this were one of the topics that mutated into being about BFA, as half of the topics do, this is very explicitly one that was about the whole problem.
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I didn’t think they did that, personally, but that’s going to vary from player to player. I can only guess that the person who wrote that scene saw it more the way I did.
So, something to put a “human” face on the loss, where one of the victims steps forward with a deeply personal and sad story to tug at the player’s heartstrings and place the emphasis on “Here’s how bad her actions were”?
(If that’s what you’re thinking, I’m actually kind of surprised they didn’t do that—Blizzard is usually, if anything far too good at putting Alliance suffering and pathos into the spotlight.)
It pains me to say this, but I don’t think the writers really zero in on the idea of Tyrande having wisdom, grace, and age. Tempted to make a comparison with Galadriel in Rings of Power here—maybe the prevailing wisdom in entertainment circles these days is that nobody wants to watch that kind of thing?
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Well, ‘good’ is subjective here – it’s usually done in a pretty maudlin way, which isn’t what I wanted here but certainly would have been a real possibility. The tricky part, though – as you allude and as came to me while I was contemplating my earlier reply – is that there’s no one built up to speak for the Horde victims at all. While I don’t think in-narrative that the Horde as a group are significant victims, the Horde playerbase was just as much (arguably more) the recipient of the crap end of a crap storyline. But there’s no one there who can really speak for the betrayed Forsaken; Voss is a great character but teeters on misuse, given how much she isn’t really a political character.
On more thought? I think having Vol’jin as a voice would have been great for the scene, though. Have him reflect on the damage she did to the nation he helped build and lead, and reassert how he’ll give guidance to a better path forward.
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All the more reason to introduce new characters and have them persist throughout an expansion. Blizzard already did this with the character Yrel and she is still remembered rather than be a blip on a radar. DF is a good opportunity for the Horde and honestly Alliance to a certain degree to partner up with the player and we see them from zone to zone and patch to patch.
If you need Horde characters to speak for Horde’s victims and villains and their POV there is really no better solution. I think this would work much better than Baine or Lorthemar or anyone else in the upper horde echelons to speak up. BFA ruined them as characters, either they were cowards, fools, willing participants or all of the above.
Hearhtstone has already done this by the way so I don’t understand what is holding the Warcraft team from doing the same.
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Yeah, when Lorthemar said Baine was the best of the Horde during BfA, that almost ruined old Lort for me. On top of him randomly praising Calia’s wisdom as we head into Shadowlands, as if he knew her for years. Such hamfisted pronouncements almost seem like sarcastic 4th wall breaking moments. Like: “hahaha that’s funny, Lort. Oh, you were serious… excuse me while I vomit.”
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Age can bring wisdom. It can also bring impatience. and Tyrande seems to embody the latter.
Well, I if you want to change things further back, you need to avoid the villain bat entirely.
Having Tyrande kill her with the Night Warrior powers wouldn’t have been unexpected (thought most would be surprised it is wasn’t a raid). But that would, IMO, have only been a sad and inevitable end to the villain bat approach. Killing off on of the last original characters and providing nothing positive. It would have set us up for “Thrall and more Thrall”.
And I have to say, what they did left me with increased respect for Tyrande. I mean, her getting buffed by Ellen and using it to get a kill to satisfy herself doesn’t come off that well. Its all about satisfying her desires. Conversely, the way it happened the decision about how it all ends was hers, and hers alone. And she took the high road and looked to justice rather than revenge. I thought it was one of her best moments.
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Sorry, little late reading this. But yeah, it’s why I said I avoid talking about Sylvanas specifically and will quietly move on when the topic becomes too hyper focused on her alone. As if she’s the sole problem BfA had.
I remarked a few times how War of Thorns was just dumb and unnecessary on both sides. Nobody who’s sane wanted it or asked for it.
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well no, then you would just have a boring story without any conflict.
Stories need conflict to be exciting and throught provoking. But that being said they also have to reward the audience. The narative itself was not bad, but it disrespected it’s audience because it had too many people to appease and it appeased the wrong one.
We consume hero and villian stories with the expectations that the hero wins at the end of the day. No matter how much crap the hero has to endure, in the end they defeat the darkness against all odds. Shadowlands did not deliver that. Shadowlands rewarded the villian and punished the heroes.
That’s the wrong that needs to be righted.
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I have posted similar things, but for slightly different reasons. I feel like the Horde Council should be made up of representatives sent by the Leadership of the various Horde kingdoms, instead of being made up of the leadership itself.
It is almost a bit of a degradation for them all to be involved in the petty squabbling. Talanji should be in Dazaralor, while she sends one of her advisors to Org to be her voice on the council. Lorthemar should be ruling in Quelthalas and maybe have Liadrin on the Council.
That would be one of my examples on the Alliance side. Heck, maybe Genn can lead the reclamation of Gilneas, and his daughter, the Crowleys, and Bloodfang can step up as the “expeditionary” leaders that are on the ground representing Worgen.
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