Better off just removing stagger, adding Guard back in for the moments where stagger would be relevant, and giving them something else. Guard would become an on press style stagger to be used before busters instead of stagger being the class mechanic. Passive mitigation that doesn’t require constant healer attention is a much better start.
Would hate for monk to be another leather class with the active mitigation button of gain armor
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Potency of utility vs quantity of utility, also instant vivify isn’t utility that is silly and is like saying chi burst make and chi wave are utility cause they heal the group. You cant compare brews utility kit to prot pal or even vdh and be like “yea this seems like a fair comparison and your effect in keys will be pretty similar” without just lying to yourself.
Brew has util it’s just low in potency and replaced by multiple classes (rop can be replaced by vortex and any knock, dispel is self explanatory, para same thing, tigers lust by freedom and the potency of freedom is significantly higher) while you can’t replace ppal util (spellwarding and avengers shield arent replaceable) but with another paladin. That is the issue people have, not having 0 utility at all.
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Gut prot pal
this, no reason for a spec to have that much power on its own. Last class with that level of potency in util (vdh) had it SIGNIFICANTLY nerfed because of how absurd it was and it didn’t even effect group survivability on boss fights/1 shots
In that case WoG for paladins isn’t a utility. The ability to heal others is util. It’s not just self-sustain.
To which, RoP is extremely powerful in M+ along with being able to soothe, cleanse, heal self/others, clear roots + speed self/others, and an AoE stun.
I never stated that BM’s utility is better or on par with Prot Paladin. You are creating circular reasoning.
Not the same.
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You’re arguing about utility while also having the opinion that they’re not part of the reason why brewmaster is so bad right now.
Since it’s meaningless, there is no point in debating further with you.
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Brewmaster isn’t really bad so much that prot paladin is just like 3x as good as it has any right to be
Again, utility is not the reason Prot Pal is meta. Likewise, it’s not why BM is on the bottom. I’ve explained this to you thoroughly.
Right, it’s meaningless because you’re incapable of understanding nuances.
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Every hybrid tank…50% of tanks…You do realize that means you have something that 50% of tanks DON’T have right? You’re over here acting like you shouldn’t count it because at least 1 or 2 other tanks have it. Nobody is saying the toolkit is perfect, but you do have more than 1 brewmaster in this forum acting like the only utility they have is an incapacitate and a physical debuff that nobody uses.
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Nope 3rd.
Mystic Touch is far better than Hunter’s Mark in M+.
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And your point is?
My point is, if your argument is based on hyperboles, your argument will gain zero traction. Nobody takes people that argue like that seriously except other people using hyperboles. Brewmaster has some legit problems, but a lack of utility isn’t one.
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If you’re going to take part and try to score some kind of gotcha points, then read the entire thread first.
(It was the current king of m+ tanks coming in here telling us to console ourselves because hey we can’t ever be useful in m+ but at least we have all that utility!!)
(And then you, the former but soon-to-be-again king of m+, came in here to tell us to stop exaggerating so much, when we didn’t even bring it up in the first place!!!)
The comedy in here just never ends.
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Nice try, but perhaps YOU should read.
“Bring little to no utility” right in the original post. Also, I some how doubt havoc is the soon-to-be-again king of M+, which if you took two seconds to check the profile you’d realize this isn’t even my main, but an alt, it’s just the character the forum’s have logged in. Again, stop using hyperboles and nonsense arguments to state your case or you’ll never gain traction.
Hard agree
Literally not even the argument I was making so it’s hilarious you are telling others to go back and read the thread.
Sadly I think that’s the only way of making them tanky enough at this point short of some % increases elsewhere. You might make the active mitigation an absorb shield+dodge instead – maybe just take celestial brew, change it up a bit to a standard absorb shield not based on stagger, and go with that. That handles both magic and physical, and works with the guard stagger.
Thats not how Celestial Brew works. You get charges based on purified damage. 1 charge for purifying green, 2 for yellow, 3 for red. At 6 charges, its at its max shield – which at 678 is roughly a 4.5m shield.
And it immediately disappears.
It needs to give a DR on top of the shield
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yeah and that’s what, a single hit or two on a higher key. That’s pretty miserable. Yep, I was missing the purify step. I should really proofread a little bit. As of last I played brew, stagger was eating the celestial brew shield still but I’m not 100% sure that’s still the case. I still want guard back regardless.
Everyone just reroll paladin prot and blizz still wouldn’t care about the other classes as much.
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