As it stands right now killing spree should be renamed tickle spree because it’s damaged is lackluster people used to be afraid of killing spree but now it does nothing. It was also Outlaw rogue’s only quick burst ability now Outlaw rogues have to build up to a burst which can easily be cc’d. Blizzard really needs to rethink their idea of how Outlaw rogue is played. Stop buffing druids and reT paladins and start paying attention to your other classes. Thanks for listening I hope my words hit the mark.
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Yeah look most of killing sprees damage actually comes from out mastery rofl
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Yeah, it’s pretty sad how badly they have broken outlaw rogues. I miss the good ol days… And all these people saying Outlaw isn’t suppose to be a pvp class…when in reality, it should be the number 1 pvp class… Simply by the way it is designed… I just hope blizzard shows us some love soon… They buff the hell out of ret paladins and every druid class… Doing 40k crits, they need to stop showing favoritism.
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The current iteration of KSP is a limp, hanging noodle compared to what it once was. Back when it was a meaningful, cc-immune attack people feared it, even though most rogues were still sub or assa.
Woundman made a career out of lining up KSP on one target before it was a single target ability. Basically, KSP used to hit everyone in a 8ish yard radius unless they were cc’ed, in which case it hit the one target that wasn’t. That one target usually died.
I actually think it’s possible to make KSP hit really hard. But you have to have 1) deathly shadows leg for 15% damage buff and a quick Between the Eyes after kidney shot, 2) POTW for an additional 10%, and 3) tricks of the trade (which is getting changed in 9.1)
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That was true in BFA as well. Stacking mastery as Outlaw is a great way to troll people. Plus having mastery gear makes it easier to switch to Assassinatoin/Sub.
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I’m totally for an approach Devs trying to more and more introduce - each spec should be viable to PvE and PvP content aswell.
In my opinion the current modern state of the game development, its changes, expansions and modernisations require even that approach.
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The reason it won’t work today like it did during Legion is because the classes are designed as classes, and some specs will inevitably leverage better off whatever the meta dev thinks what spec is most like that class…
That is, the pendulum swung from spec-based design (which is easily the healthiest state overall) to a class-based one (and they’re trying to make designs even more generic via covenants–essences did the same during BFA).
A sin rogue will tell you a completely different epitome or ideal for Rogue than a sub or combat rogue.
(It will forever be combat rogue, guns or not.)
I appreciate your comments, but whatever you just said didn’t make any sense… you say it isn’t possible for the class? but it has already existed?..so how could it not work if they just dont bring back a previous implimentation of it?
Not to you, but the prior post. Each spec being PvE and PvP viable. The emphasis on class design, instead of spec design, will make that approach not work like it did during Legion, where the entire expac was built on each spec experience.
Now we have spec class cov experience, and it’s largely addressed with blanket changes. What drew me here was the OP, because KS is already pretty good, but I agree it needs some kind of buff. I honestly think making it 100% crit chance removes the value for MA in M+ and opens the spec to more diversity and options. But much more of a buff is not indicated, looking at competing talents, they’re all pretty substellar.
bro it isn’t good at all right now, without other pre-buffs… its useless by itself… it needs a big damage buff and needs to be immune to cc…
My opinion still stands that most standard talent options suck by themselves, and with other pre-buffs, it’s still a decent talent.
I understand your post is in the perspective of PvP, but all of PvP right now is a hot garbage fire that’s spreading to the commissary. A lot of the talent changes they’re making isn’t going to help the garbage class balance because, again, they balance by class not by spec.
I hate it. It’s awful. But it’s the way the game has been developed for the past five years. As long as they’re balancing class covenants, instead of fixing particular per spec interactions with the class-wide tools they introduced, all KS could possibly become is a meme and unfun to anyone on the receiving end.
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i wish i could play outlaw, but i absolutely hate roll the bones and the way the aoe works =(
it was my favorite spec of all time in 8.0 because i had 3 snake eyes traits, then they nerfed it into the ground and i havent looked back since.
assa just feels so much smoother to me and the aoe pumps hard and its so easy to get aoe off. i love pumping in team fights. sometimes i get juicy 15k fan of knives, even one time i had a 25k FoK but that guy must have literally had 0 vers or something. lol
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Outlaw has 0% class burst… and barely any sustained dmg… unless you go unchecked… than we are good but CC ruins our sustained dmg. The spec requires too much ramp up to even be slightly viable in pvp as it’s current standing.
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Some kind of CC immunity would be nice, but the argument would be that’s already semi-there with cloak.
IDK if you’ve been tracking PTR changes, but Enduring Brawler has promise. Right now though, it requires you to be wholly engaged in combat for a full minute just to get a 20% stam and multiSS buff. With the low base durability outlaw has and lack of strong on-demand mobility, I see it being “good in theory, bad in practice”. The outlaw will just get eaten before it stacks enough to survive (especially since the Rogue meta is consistent resets to maintain CC uptimes).
And realistically, no rogue can skip smoke bomb and sleep fine at night. There’s a lot going on with the PvP changes, but unfortunately, if my Rogue wants to be taken seriously in PvP near-term, they’ll be expected to go sin (sub will be fine for arenas).
Until some popular, high tier rogues go Outlaw or express a desire to go Outlaw, I fully expect the community to look at it and go “that’s the PvE spec” (even when it’s really only high performance in M+).
Combat had ramp up in Cata and MoP. So did the other two specs. I do agree Rogue design right now has moved away from a lot of ramp up. Assassination only comes closest.
Outlaw still has quite a bit of ramp up…and requires constant upkeep to maintain average damage. So I don’t know what you mean, they are leaning away from it?.. Not in the slightest… Ramp up, upkeep and rng is what makes outlaw so crappy right now…
Insight in Cata was on the target and had ramp up. All CPs for Rogues in cata was still on the target unless you used redirect.
These days Rogues can switch targets and not lose CPs which is overall less ramp up.
Right now Outlaw doesn’t have much ramp up like Combat. Problem with Outlaw is the RNG of sinister strike, and RNG of RTB.
Take away the RNG and the spec would play like Combat of old.
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Don’t forget the green/yellow/red talisman ramp, that you had to spend a fixed amount of time in combat to build. Now it’s a legendary (that I will never take).
Edit: just now realized that is Combat Insight–no wonder the name was escaping me… LOL.
Outlaw just lacks killing power in general any class with even mild self-healing can pretty much negate any damage and Outlaw rogue can do. The one ability/skill that Outlaw rogues have, which would be wound poison to negate some of that self-healing, is absolutely useless. So in the reality of things the only use an Outlaw rogue has in PvP right now is it’s abundance of CC. The CC an Outlaw rogue can output only takes teams so far if they can’t kill anything, while said CC is being applied. Regardless of the fact that you can keep your combo points and switch to a different Target you still have to ramp up those combo points to apply your slice and dice, between the eyes, and kidney shots. Without those abilities applied Outlaw rogue does no damage. All that aside, doesn’t even include the ramp up required for na attempt at long bursting a single target… Which would be, having slice and dice up, flagellation, dread blades, adrenaline rush and trinket…only to be stunned or cc’ed while all that is active…and boom your burst is gone…and being the only spec in the game, where your burst actually hurts you as well…yeah, way to go blizzard…
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Where are you guys seeing ramp up lol. Outlaw is all upfront damage. Dont mistaken lack of burst as “ramping”
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