Proving Grounds Redux doesn’t even need to be difficult. Literally interrupt, CC, LoS this cast before it kills you, don’t stand in fire, and so on.
Blizzard stripping away utility talents that now have to be spec’d into is a problem, too. The number of times I’ve run into players who aren’t spec’d into CC or dispels during Incorporeal and Afflicted weeks boggles the mind. Granted, some people probably won’t use them anyway, but not including interrupts/dispels/whatever by default hardly encourages their use when certain game mechanics are built around these talents.
Heroics are easy for people who want something higher than normal but still want to be able to queue for it.
M0 is where you learn mechanics. It has no timer or fail state outside of player patience, so it really doesn’t matter that this is the first time you have to do mechanics or die. You can just keep running the encounter until you do it right.
It’s not. Mythic is meant to be mythic. That’s why zero’s don’t have affixes or timers. You’re not going to learn mechanics if there is no penalty for ignoring them. They’re an environment where the consequences matter and the limits of m+ don’t exist yet.
When you fail a mechanic and still live and the boss dies anyway then what? Queue and hope you get the same dungeon? You can’t learn with something that doesn’t matter.
I may have missed more comments after this but good scaling does not remain constant. This true in engineering and will carry over to this situation. If you’re saying that there is an increase in enemy health and damage between N and H by 10% and equal increase between H and M0, then you have successfully scaled by that metric, but you won’t hit your intended outcome. The assumption would be that because you scaled by 10% that difficulty would also increase by 10% when in reality it probably only increased by 2%. This is actually a pretty complicated scaling problem because there are quite a few parameters to take into consideration. For instance, what is the expected item level for this level of content and how much damage will each spec deal at that item level. Also, what is the rate at enemies use specific abilities. Because of that, I don’t expect blizzard to get it right on the first try. If you believe that their scaling method is good, and have a link to supporting data, please share it. That way we can all draw our own conclusions from objective data.
The point I was asking about being top DPS at 441 is that you can top the chart at minimum ilvl which suggests that I am not running H with too high of an ilvl. I’m also not winning any awards with my current skill level. So if I’m not that great my ilvl is at the minimum required value, how are we running through these dungeons with me at top DPS? People can’t even work on their rotation if they wanted to. Anecdote, maybe, but others are experiencing the same thing. How many couldn’t tell you because we don’t have access to the data.
When you’re over geared, sure. But by that point you shouldn’t be in Heroics any more and should have learned the mechanics
Absolutely can. Just because you got stuck at Mythic and can’t ignore mechanics doesn’t mean me and my folk cannot, because, spoiler: we have and we do.
Was a generalized you, not a specific you.
And they do, so long as people are willing to learn. No one wants to learn though, they’re just there to get through it as quick as possible.
How did I learn the mechanics while leveling up and gearing up? By paying attention and not just watching the dps meters.
No one said you can’t fail and still learn. Everyone would be lying if they claimed they’ve never goofed a mechanic before. Not all learning experiences come from success.
You can, and multitudes of people have and do.
You’re missed the point. Scaling, regardless of how much and at what level will always be a constant variable. Player skill is always changing. That’s all I was saying.
Where you are on the charts has nothing to do with your ilvl in appropriate content. That’s the point I was making. I was a tank and topped the meters in my heroic dungeon run at 457 ilvl. I wasn’t even the highest ilvl person there.
Probably pretty slowly if you’re the top dps and claim to not be that great.
Holy strawman. You don’t need to witness it ten times in the same encounter. Heroics are queued and spammed content. You can see it again. So long as you’re paying attention and willing to learn, even a failed attempt can teach you and prepare you for the next go round.
You just have to be willing to learn. Not knowing what a single boss does simply because the mechanics that are present don’t kill you does not mean you’re unable to learn. It just means you choose to turn a blind eye.
Most mechanics happen at checkpoints, usually based off of health percentage. Meaning regardless of how fast you think you’re killing these things, you’re going to witness a full round of mechanics.
I think you’re missing the point. If a H takes me 10-15 minutes with a minimum required ilvl and I’m topping the chart at minimum ilvl, it’s probably because the content is too easy. You’re original argument was people’s ilvl was too high, but you have been provided with examples that contradict your statement. If your experience of the content has been different, then your conclusion makes sense. However, you don’t have hard data to support your case and you’re not going to convince people by simply contradicting what others say.
It can only be as strawman if I’m debating a real argument. You seem to be convinced that your thoughts on the matter are fact, but you lack the data the support your stance. You’re attempting to denounce the experiences of others with mere conjecture rather than facts. I believe you’re also making and incorrect assumption about how people play the game. While some of us may indeed rep the encounter until we can’t get it wrong, the number of failed M0’s would suggest most people are not doing that. At some point we have weigh the option of forcing people to play the content the way we think it should be played or design the content to fit the playstyle of the greater payer base. I, and others here, see the player base wanting the content modified.
All that being said, I am more than willing to change my position if you have data to support your claim. I will jump on that “get good” bandwagon.
I have a screenshot of my run that took longer than an M+ run does because of the people in it who weren’t able to breeze through the content.
Again, a tank being your top dps in a Heroic run when that tank is a Prot Warrior of all things and at 457 ilvl.
Not denouncing, showing the idiocy in it by making the same claims on different tiers of content.
Just because YOU find Heroics easy doesn’t mean everyone does.
Just because I find Mythics easy doesn’t mean everyone does.
If YOU can say Heroics are easy and it’s a VALID statement because others can attest, then I can say Mythics are easy and it’s VALID statement because others can attest.
That second sentence proves that my assumption of how people play the game is correct. That they don’t care to bother to learn the mechanics and would rather complain and have Blizzard nerf things to be faceroll easy than improve themselves.
Blizzard has the data and they already made the choice to alter the difficulties. Regardless of what you or I think.
Sure. Everyone pushing m+ first week in S3 gear and being entirely undergeared for it yet still succeeding. Everyone who pushes the next tier without first having out geared it.
All the data is there. You just need to go looking for it.
It’s simple thought process.
If skill didn’t matter and it was strictly gear, everyone would be in the same boat dependent on the gear they have.
But skill does matter, and that’s why people like myself are able to do m0s at 460 ilvl while people at 500 ilvl fail.
What’s the difference between me and them when they’re better suited for the content, but they fail, and I succeed?
Hi, I was KSM and doing +10 keys timed week 1 while under 495 ilvl. Meanwhile, ya’ll struggling w/ Zeros at 500+ ilvl. U really think I have a hard time healing a 0 w/ 420ilvl? Also, the people in my group were all low ilvl alts like mine just trying to get bullion. LMK
This is true. I use them, you probably use them, and other people on this thread use them. I think it’s safe to say that a fair number of people don’t use the external resources and want to feel confident before they ever step into an m0. I think we can build that confidence with harder heroics. Not hard enough to exclude anyone from the content, but maybe hard enough so it takes another 5 minutes to finish. Not on the level of Cata heroics. Just enough so that you don’t kill everything before you see the mechanics. Right now it’s happening too fast to prepare people for m0.
If they’re already not wanting to learn by stepping into harder content, then increasing the Heroic dungeon difficulty is just going to push them out of that as well… “You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.” These are the types of people that would rather walk away than try again.