As it should be. At 490 people were doing +10 keys
Hmm, where have I heard this idea before:
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I’m at work atm, but off the top of my head the biggest challenges I’ve seen people struggle with in M0 were:
- People not kitting the frogs to the boss to be eaten in HoI (yes, this isn’t a mythic-only mechanic, but it can easily be ignored in heroic)
- I don’t believe the saboteurs spawn in NO in heroic
- The orbs on the 2nd boss in NO move in M0, while they’re stationary in heroic
- The dragons between the egg pools aren’t in heroic
- I don’t think the first boss in HoI has the lightning puddle drop in heroic
- I don’t remember the 3rd boss in HoI using the water tornado in heroic
- The chains aren’t really part of the 2nd boss fight in Nelth
- I don’t recall if all the mechanics are present in the first fight in Bracken
Again, I’d have to pull up wowhead and toggle heroic/mythic on each boss to see the added mechanic(s) and damage+health scaling.
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Can be easily ignored in M0 too if you’ve got dispels and enough AoE
Doesn’t change the mechanic though, you still have to use the lances
Doesn’t change anything, they’re still there and give a buff and deal damage
Not a mechanic
It does
She does.
They are, just reduced number
They are. Just the buff of Predatory Instincts (5% increased haste per 10% missing health from members) becomes present.
Again, most of it is just extra damage and negligible. The mechanics are there. It all circles back to:
Not doing the mechanics because you don’t think you’re going to die from them is not the same as “omg new mechanics because i died in m0”. If you do the mechanics in Heroic, you’ll survive in Mythic (assuming you continue to do mechanics).
The “they don’t teach anything” argument is folly. They teach you what to do, people just don’t do them and them < insert shocked pikachu.gif > when they ignore it in mythic and it kills them. Then they rush to the forums with the false ideology and misconception that Mythic dungeons are over tuned or too hard or the scaling is much too great (again, it’s not, as the scaling from Normal to Heroic is higher).
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That’s kind of the point: bosses are dying too quickly to SEE the mechanics.
How is someone supposed to know what to do with the chains on the 2nd boss in Nelth, if the boss dies before using them?
I’m not asking for heroics to be so changed that people should expect wipes, but if heroics are supposed to be where players learn the fights before jumping into M0, maybe the boss health should be high enough so the group can see all the mechanics if people aren’t in raid/M+ gear?
Stop over gearing the content.
I posted a screenshot of my 457 Prot Warrior. Average ilvl of the group was around there. 460 something DPS and a 447 healer and a mix in between. While the bosses died relatively quick, the mechanics were still present.
Walking in to trivial content and exclaiming its easy isnt some new discovery
These dungeons have been here for a year and a half. The mechanics havent changed. Cant tell me that all these folks who have been playing Dragonflight are stepping into these dungeons for the first time.
This isnt an issue of seeing the mechanics or not. Or mechanics being too hard or not. This is simply people who dont do mechanics being upset that they now have to do mechanics.
Want to skip mechanics? Do what youve always done: get better gear to survive the mechanics.
This whole thing is: i dont want to actually do mechanics. Has nothing to do with how “hard” they are.
Mechanics mattering and death being the punishment for failing is a good thing
If you see a vulpera poking you, that’s me. 
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Is the gap between N and H the same as H to M though? You can run the numbers, but it comes down to what the player experiences. Maybe the gap from N to H is bigger, but people aren’t wiping as often in H. I started running H as soon as my pally could and proceeded to wreck. Yes I understand ret pallies are OP right now, but we shouldn’t be able to absolutely rip through a heroic as soon as we are geared enough to que for it. We can’t really dig into the live data as much so we have to use anecdote. Let me ask this, how long do you think the average encounter lasts for the final boss of Azure Vaults on H vs M0? How about if the H group is at ilvl 441 and the M0 group is ilvl 480 (because they’re smart and did some world content)? How many times does he drop those crystals in that window? I personally think he needs to drop them 2-3 times in H for people to get the gist. However, this is my anecdotal experience and my opinion.
Yeah I’ll try for KSM/H in TWW lol.
I’m playing mostly pandaland come Thursday
Current heroic offers equivalent mythic 0 gear of season 3 way better gear than say season 3 itself.
Mythic 0 in season 4 no longer face roll and provides actual “challenge” and be like a mega dungeon experience.
Making content feel more relevant.
I don’t know, I would have to level up another alt (I do have a couple in the low 60s) and then find more people in quest gear to do normal dungeons at 70.
Since people can do normal dungeons at 70 with followers, I don’t know how easy it would be to find groups in the dungeon finder for normals while everyone is in leveling gear.
N → H is actually more than H → M
Incorrect. Scaling is 100% numbers and 0% feeling
Because they’re over geared. This has been covered. You don’t wipe if you don’t die. Bigger/better gear = bigger/better health pool.
Depends on relative gear and player skill. Take the group I ran with my Prot Warrior. Appropriately geared folks in appropriate level content. Would have taken forever in Heroic. Take this guy (appropriate gear for appropriate content) and it would have taken half the time than the Heroic group.
If we’re going on anecdotal only, 2-3 times is about the average for both H and M dungeons I’ve run.
It’s easy. They’re there. Follower dungeons aren’t as popular as you may think.
I’ll do the shuffle with you! 
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Scaling is numbers based, but you’re excluding the variation in player experience. Most likely because the scaling based off the wrong parameters. This is why you can’t scale up and ant proportionally without their legs collapsing under their weight. But you scaled based on numbers not feeling right? If you scale-up your bioprocess based on your oxygen transfer coefficient and see all your cells dying because the power per unit volume is too high, you still killed your cells regardless how much you relied on numbers. If I’m coming in an H at 441 and experiencing minimal mechanics, while being top DPS, I’m not over geared. Unless you believe 441 is too high for H, which would also point back to scaling.
Then move up to more difficult content.
People will always complain when faced with content they cannot complete, nothing will change that.
Might be a waste of time, but might also be worth it to experience first hand.
But would it be better if we were able to train more good players via a well designed? I know some people just don’t want to learn, but if it’s a possibility why not push for it? We can only benefit from more people being better players. Maybe we’d even get more tanks and healers.
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You just said you don’t do that content and skip it. You’re not the reason people can ignore mechanics in heroics. I can tell you’ve not set foot in a heroic dungeons in years. They’re faceroll easy for anyone that can queue.
For the record I don’t mind the M0 changes much. I’ve been doing them and it’s been fine for me but please don’t talk like you know the content that you haven’t run in literal years.
I can form a group and get carried too. It’s not difficult.
who says customers doing heroics go onto M0 ?
this is the break off for queued activity and really isn’t a training ground for future victims of M+.
go play in your sandbox and leave the other customers alone…