Not sure if Sargaras was actually that size at the time.
I’m thinking it’s a more of a “Grow with size as he accumulates power” sort of deal, so he wouldn’t of been THAT big back then.
But the Titans were still pretty big regardless. I mean, Sargaras might of been the size of a Mountian maybe?
I would go with yes, there was never any indication Brox was more powerful then a normal orc and Varian has proven to be as strong as a normal orc at least. Certainly Brox was a veteran but so was Varian by the time of Legion.
2 Likes
He was his full size as I recall. But I would point out that he was barely injured. In fact he was more suprised then hurt by Brox cutting him(and again said cut was due to Brox, the dragons, Malfurion, Illidan and Rhonin combining their powers)
1 Like
Brox managing to pierce Sargeras gave his allies a weakness they could target with a spell that distracted Sargeras long enough for them to close the portal and save Azeroth. Like, not hypothetically. Right then and there.
I suggest you need to review the source material. Brox was the elite orc warrior. He survived in Hyjal, holding a pass against the Legion after every other orc fell.
In terms of raw strength? Brox. In overall battle? I would say even, could go either way. Just because Brox gave Sargeras a paper cut doesn’t mean he would automatically win against Varian. It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog.
2 Likes
Actually, while i agree with your overall points, the first book puts in detail how much better than the other orcs Brox was, being he the one that survived wave after wave of demons in a previous battle while all the other orcs around him died in battle, making Brox think he didn’t fight enough since he didn’t die as well.
And? Varian gave the Alliance a chance to retreat and ultimately gave all of us the ability to beat back the Legion. And even if he pieced said skin it was just as much because of his weapon as his own mortal prowless.
If this is a talk about who has contributed more to keeping Azeroth save, Varian has done just as much, if not more then Brox. He has helped stave off at least three apocalpses.
And we see Varian holding out as well, he was literally thrown off the airship. The moment he got out of the water he still fought. As I recall it we meet up with Varian during the Broken Shore, he was already pretty exausted from fighting and still he helped up get all the way to the portal before having to one shot a Woldbreaker and fighting off waves of infernals.
And Varian one shot Onyxia herself. Varian has fought the Scourge, the Horde and the Legion and survived until the Broken Shore.
2 Likes
I’ve fought the Legion. You’ve fought the legion. We saw Varian fight the Legion. They didn’t improve their tactics. Varian got overwhelmed by numbers.
1 Like
That’s nice. But I was responding to your claim that Brox was no stronger than any other orc. Keep moving those goalposts, though.
2 Likes
I gotta give it to Brox.
Varian is ridiculously impressive for sure, but Brox has shown to be no slouch in combat, holding a pass by himself against the Legion on Hyjal. (Which likely also included the Scourge.) Beyond that, he created a literal pile of corpses around him when on the other side of the portal. That’s not the axe, that’s his raw endurance, skill, and willpower, which is consistent with what he accomplished in Hyjal.
I also doubt the Legion’s tactics changed that much, they always seem to be pretty all in on the numbers thing and some demons are likely incapable of it at all, such as felhounds. Felguards? Sure. They could, but how much difference would that make to a battle-hardened veteran like Brox?
Varian’s one shot against the Fel-reaver was impressive, but seems to have hit a vital spot, which allowed for the slaying. Meanwhile, Brox scratched the Dark Titan himself, something that has only been replicated by one other being, Toranaar. While I don’t want to downplay Toranaar’s achievement, it is important to note that he may have only fought an Avatar, much like Aegwynn, as we don’t know what form Sargeras took here. While still impressive, Brox 100% gave a paper cut to Space Satan himself. That’s ludicrous, enchanted weapon or no.
Without the Axe of Cenarius it becomes much closer, but I think Brox still has the endurance, strength, and willpower to outmatch Varian.
The book doesn’t present Brox as actually injuring Sargeras, he was just the first mortal to actually nick him. It even says it was enough to annoy Sargeras into killing him. It’s not like Sargeras fell over because of a torn hamstring or anything.
I also ignore mosquitos until they annoy me.
3 Likes
Everyone agrees that this was the case, but the injury was a lot more important than a “mosquito bite.” Specifically, it allowed Brox’s allies to penetrate Sargeras’s defences with their magic long enough to shut down the portal and save Azeroth.
If Brox doesn’t make his stand and injure Sargeras, however slightly, Azeroth is gone.
Also, I don’t think this is necessarily a two person competition. Could Varian have beat Cairne, for example? Varian was evenly matched with Garrosh, and Cairne was handing Garrosh with ease.
3 Likes
Varian was gaining advantage against Garrosh over time.
Also, battles aren’t as simple as “I’m stronger therefore i win”, sometimes the different techniques and experiences, weapon and armor, all of that matters.
Saying who will win between two warriors is not as clear as saying which mage is more powerful.
Is the same as the Fel Reaver, no character can 1v1 a Fel Reaver in lore, but Varian killed one due to being in the right position to do a killing blow.
The same with Brox, in the first book we get a lot of momments of him being defeated or by magic or by overwhelming odds.
Though, Brox being way above the average Orc, and Cairne being a Tauren, both probably have more physical strenght than Varian, they both have a lot of experience. Varian is way above the average human, that in the Universe of warcraft, the average human isn’t that below the average Orc in physical strenght. Being a gladiator for a period of time gave him experience in fighting Orcs for sure, and he had a very powerful enchanted blade.
Rethinking even what I said, i have to say, it could be either way, it would matter who lands a killing blow first.
1 Like
I’d disagree with this. Orcs are seven foot tall murder beasts and humans are about… 6ish? Their armor is thicker, the weapons are larger, and back in RTS days one grunt was worth two footmen.
The lord of Alterac marveled, briefly, over the sheer size of the Doomhammer iirc.
Orcs still have canine like senses, thicker bone structure (to the point that Doomhammer was annoyed that they would have to breed bigger worgs for the new warriors after the demon blood was drank.)
In game stats don’t reflect this, obviously. But it’s been stated in several books just how strong orcs are. Peons are supposed to be stupidly strong, just too dumb to be fighters… and they’re by far the weakest units you can find.
Humans, however, have an edge in speed, agility, and usually intelligence… and, until recently, technology and supplies.
1 Like
Good points. I think Varian would have to win early if he was going to win, and take advantage of his probably superior speed. If you look at Varian’s big wins, they have involved lightning-fast strikes that took opponents by surprise. If he winds up toe-to-toe with Brox, he is going to get ground down. But both are very smart combatants and would be aware of these advantages/disadvantages.
1 Like
While in the books i’ve read there aren’ direct comparisons of orcs and humans besides Varian, i was thinking more about the wc 3 opening scene and the mop trailer.
Now on the books i’ve read, there is plenty of examples of Night Elf sentinels being evenly matched with Average Orc Warriors, and there is that famous Grom line about them.
1 Like
Elves in general are supposed to be much stronger than humans. In one of the books, Alleria hefts a huge boulder and Turalyon marvels that it is much heavier than any human could lift.
1 Like
I’d wager that NE’s are also a good sight stronger than the average human. Archery is kinda big with them… Bows require a lot of strength and endurance. With their agility and how strong they’d HAVE to be to draw a bow built for their size? I don’t doubt that a NE could, at least, hold their own against an orc. That, and there’s no telling what all the exposure to the waters of Hyjal have done for them.
I BEG YOUR PARDON
If my memory isn’t tricking me, In Wolfheart there is one battle that describes a Night Elf courier being able to parry with her sentinel glaive several attacks from an Orc that ambushed her. She later perished because there were multiple orcs in the ambush.
Another feat was one Night Elf kicking a tree on top of a goblin shredder, though IIRC said tree was already damaged.
I believe they’re around even, nelves and orcs, but probably orcs have an edge on strenght while nelves have on agility.
The thing about humans vs orcs in physical strength is that we are told Orcs are stronger but are shown humans having no problem physically fighting them.
2 Likes