How do you play the game? I want to be as good as I can for the content that I run. Now if we just clear normal I can be content with getting a full set of normal gear. With forging my goal posts are moved by BS luck.
I want end game progression. LFR → Normal → Heroic. Not running LFR and skipping over everything because we don’t just raid for the fun of it. We raid to get rewarded. If we are just handed the rewards the game is over until the next patch.
That was Wrath with the trophies. Mists had thunderforged from throne of thunder and warforged from Siege. And then WoD and Legion had war/titanforge from every possible source.
I believe that you are over-representing the chances of loot receiving an upgrade with these systems, especially in a way that would overlap with the next tier (which is a successful loot roll + three or more upgrade rolls in succession).
Even if you did LFR 5 times before doing normal, you’d probably end up with only one or two pieces that couldn’t be upgraded by normal, maybe one piece that couldn’t be upgraded by heroic if you’re lucky. Then if you did normal five times, maybe you get two pieces that can’t be upgraded by heroic. Which leaves 11 reasons to go into heroic.
I didn’t like titanforging because it messed up with my sense of completion. Suddenly I had to tell myself to stop, instead of “beating the game” by getting the max item level possible for my difficulty. Suddenly non-TF pieces felt bad to get.
It also messed up with my sense of relative progression where the rewards from the immediate next difficulty level didn’t feel worthwhile. So for example, getting Normal raid piece didn’t feel as great if I got some LFR titan forged. So to truly feel upgrade, I would technically need to jump right into heroic raid.
So while it has positives, I think overall it’s a negative for the game.
And force players to run LFR every single week for the chance that they might get a TF. It’s not a good system. Or oops my guild is on heroic now? Well I guess I need to find a pug for normals in the hopes of a TF.
Kinda like the weekly vault, and any sort of chanse at getting loot in pve in general.
I think its a very valid point that Titanforging keeps pve content relevant forever. But with the lack of loot from content, everyone is just waiting for their weekly dissapointment instead.
it’s still like that in a way with sockets and preferred secondary stats. maybe not as “impactful” as titanforging was, but still gives you a reason to farm the same content for “that piece”.
they do have the ability to socket certain pieces - which is nice…hopefully they keep that system around.
It doesnt though. Raid groups are spending time on the current content not wasting one of their raid nights farming old raids for a chance at hitting the lottery. Stop using this reasoning. Forcing people into old content is not keeping content relevant. It’s making gearing a complete nightmare.
I dislike that even more to be honest. Tertiary stats are fine, but I really miss pre-defined sockets on gear.
Really no reason to grind out raids for sockets compared to titanforging because you can just bypass the rng which is much much more of a healthy design choice. Removing a lot of the BS RNG on gear in Shadowlands was by far the best feature in this expansion.
Sockets in an extreme case are at best worth maybe 80dps (more depending on the spec) which is not going to make or break anything. Titanforging on the otherhand with certain trinkets back in BFA was very easily 2500+ dps (relative to shadowlands scaling) with some extreme cases like Ashvane’s Razor Coral being BiS into the next tier. Warforging and Titanforging in the state it was in has no place in this game.
Not the old “forced” argument, the only ones forced to do such were those that felt like they needed the absolute best gear available to do content.WF/TF was a BONUS, not the standard and one could do quite well without said bonus.
Also, one of the ideas put forth if forging does indeed comeback is a cap on how much things can’t forge, like LFR can forge above base normal, if you are doing normal or heroic, LFR is pointless, normal can’t forge above heroic base, if you are doing heroic or mythic normal is pointless.
A cap can also be put on older content, like their max forge is what it is for that tier, it can’t forge above the highest forge for that tier, as an example CN gear can’t forge higher then the 5-10 levels that would have been the cap for mythic CN. Or, if nothing else, forging only exists for current content, once the new raid is out, the old raid gear can’t forge ever again.
Really, every complaint I have ever seen about forging and wanting it removed has only ever amounted to “whaaaa, if I can get a mythic level piece from LFR I have to run LFR” or “whaaa, if I can get higher gear, I have to try for it cause I want the highest gear I can get”.
Really, things like caps would have gone a long way to quell the forging complaints, and the rest would have mostly been taken care of by people realizing that such were a bonus, not the standard or needed for their content.
Raids and everything can be balanced behind their base ilvl gear, anything above that would help but would technically not be needed, it would just give that slight edge that might mean less dealing with mechanics or a kill.
Even I don’t want forging back in the way it was before it was removed, but I would be more then happy with a version where it could be traded and had reasonable caps.
The only other option would be being able to upgrade not just M+ gear but raid gear via valor, again with reasonable caps, just so those who have bad luck on the vault/drops/etc can still progress their gear without relying on RNG too much.
Check this out look at the topics on gd here in a second. I got one more relevant than ever.
i too dislike when my keyboard forces me to load up world of warcraft and log in to play the game over and over for better loot i just cant say no to my keyboards assertive control over me
I cannot really respond to what you say because
I can’t understand it.
Anyway, what we need is that all expansion is used without any prejudice to being obsolete not even in guild group it can’t be used, in LFG they forgot it as if they were in 9.2 and not 9.1 respectively at the low ilvl of the raid.
At least in Legion, even in 7.3 it was still going in LFR or LFG IN Raid first raid, and later in BfA after 8.1 it was seen that Dazar’lor and Uldum were forgotten, only in 8.3 it was only farmed Jaina mount on Dazar’lor Mythic until Blizzard gave the advantage of jumping to final boss.
if it is possible, that does not interest me, what interests me is to see an X.2 or X.3 using the first raid without any problem noo… all the raids.
As was Vanilla TBC, all raids are like a normal dungeon nothing is wasted until the next expansion until it becomes Legacy.
I’m guessing you don’t run organized content. No guild wants to have to try to run multiple raids. It’s a stupid idea. Even time walking raids besides maybe once for the novelty were a complete waste of time.
I think it’s time we stop protecting these
“GUILDS” from themselves. That excuse to not make content relevant because my guild will make me play is bs as it lead to just about the most boring state WoW could ever be in.
THE GAME IS BORING now because of these ridiculous things blizzard implemented while being held hostage by influencers on YouTube, Twitter, Twitch.
Find a guild that won’t make you do these things when we have more content.
There must be hundreds of thousands of raidloggers just like your guild that don’t want to run content for upgrades.
The lies you tell to try and justify getting massive forges from lfr are hilarious. You spit out bs justification after justification that would straight up kill this game. You have no idea what you are talking about and you just like to hear yourself speak.
Let’s be serious by all accounts the ideas that have been implemented that where requested for BFA and shadowlands players that feel and think the game should be the way you desired have done that already.
The best part of it though is now it appears the game designers are just going quarantine RAIDS so no content outside of a raid impacts it.
Everyone can obtain a tier set and you don’t get player power from any of the world content.
And wanting more opportunities for loot like TITANFORGING needs to be brought back.
I’m not sure why this is such an issue for such a small portion of players like yourself but oh well.
And if we are being honest this game will always have a shrinking playerbase because it just seems possible for any gaming company to get patches out every 3 months.
THEIR NEEDS TO BE MORE REPLAYABILITY and TITANFORGING can be part of that.
titanforging is awful. one of the worst things added into this game and im glad its gone.