Thing is, the people asking anyone to not dredge it up, are the same people that dislike any rotation outside IL spam with TV. They gotta cast GS now? The horror, why are they forced to use GS? When the better question is, why, and why is it otherwise okay that, I am being forced to NOT use GS and should just shut up because I want a little balance to my specs.
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They did that, with Lonely Winter. Everyone picked LW, even in Legion when it was still a dps increase to run the pet. The âcasualsâ and RPers and those wanting âclass fantasyâ also either didnât pick it, or made up such a small percentage of the playerbase, that the devs looked at it and said âwhy are less than 1% of players taking this choice node, maybe we can save ourselves a lot of effort and delete itâ. The only times players ran perma-WE was when there was no choice during those two expansions (and only one of them had any interaction with the player).
Itâs almost like a reddit thread in that sense. The difference being that anyone who disagrees there can have their post removed by the mod/creator. But yeah, when itâs the same strawman argument being made by the same 3-4 players for 12+ months it makes you wonder about the state of their mind. Surely theyâd live happier lives just letting this one go, than coming back to feed back into the loop. At least the bot account who made the 14 new WE threads and would come to bump them every few weeks seems to have disappeared.
No they didnât, but both things can be true. It was a design decision AND they didnât feel it was worth the effort to balance it.
And this could also be true.
I donât think they ignored anything. Iâve no doubt they knew it was weaker than LW. It was that way on purpose, but not for the conspiracy theory reasons you think. Thatâs what youâre missing.
And Iâm sorry, but they didnât owe it to anyone to âbalanceâ WE and wait to see what people picked. You need to get over that idea.
Bingo. Thatâs because Demo is designed as a pet/caster class. Frost Mage doesnât need to also be in that lane. Mage has been fairly criticized for being bloated, so why add to it a redundant playstyle that would only increase the bloat AND consume dev resources that would add better value elsewhere?
They owe it to anyone who likes playing an rpg for the rpg aspect. Are you saying i shouldnât be invested in the fantasy of the class Iâm playing at all? Or that itâs fair to be forced to choose between being effective at what you do vs what aspects of your class you enjoy? Talk about anti fun. Itâs baffling youâd say this.
Youâre basically telling me i have to choose between looking like a troll when doing harder content or actually being good at the content.
They should have ripped the bandaid off in legion and saved me a ton of time.
Can you please stop posting patently false information on the forums finally? It wasnât until they buffed LW that everyone switched to it in Legion, Iâll even post rankings again for anyone interested in seeing this âeveryone the momentâ(apparently canât include links):
Before 7.1 buff and tier set
https ://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/10#class=Mage&spec=Frost
https ://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/12#class=Mage&spec=Frost
After 7.1 buff and Tier Set
https ://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/11#class=Mage&spec=Frost
I wouldnât say 40% at the low end of Mythic top 100 raiders is a small percentage and are âcasualâ/RP.
And it was only a single expansion, maybe two tops where the pet didnât have interaction with the player. Cataclysm- FoF off Freeze, maybe skipped Mists, but WoD onward Water Jet gave procs with FB casts.
This basically sums up Blizzard in a nutshell on anything.
They did, and they did. They had three expansions worth of data to show the Elemental was weaker. Then again, they never really understood how to balance Frost as it was and Fire was always their favorite spec.
To be fair, thatâs apparently what weâre asking them to do if they bring back the Permanent Welly.
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If you want to RP you can still do that. My Fire Mage has had a pet phoenix for years, since before Sunfury was even a twinkle in some devâs eye. And unlike Sunfury, my phoenix is permanent.
No. Iâm suggesting that you try being more pragmatic about it. Asking the devs to maintain a playstyle that is a nightmare to balance and is essentially the same as an already existing spec just to keep your notion of âclass fantasyâ alive is unreasonable.
Game play considerations will always trump class fantasy. Thatâs just reality.
Anyway, TT and Kerathras are right. Iâve contributed enough flogs to this dead horse for the day I think.
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The community is putting up with way too much crap. In justifying the devs for keeping it unbalanced, youâre setting a precedent for them to do whatever they want, player will be damned. Itâs like weâre all saying âhey stomp all over me!â And it shows in one of our hero specs (spellslinger, icicles v2 lol) that most of the community is unenthusiastic for.
If welly was so unpopular, it would have lost the contest even if it was balanced. The fact they had to unbalance it first in lwâs favor speaks volumes. Itâs also disgusting itâs still on the talent tree. A necessary boring op damage buff. With no choice.
I assume youâre talking about a battle pet. I think if you had a permanent phoenix that you actually got to summon permanently in combat and if it went through this same history as we youâd feel differently. It would literally feel like youâre sliding backwards. Right now for you the gameplay is going in a positive direction with respect to fantasy so your attitude is very easy to have.
This is a false choice. I feel like the fantasy and gameplay of other classes has evolved more positively in both directions (in fact i recently saw a post from a hunter where they stated that mage was stagnant as their reason for ditching it). Mage feels arbitrarily held back. Also our pet options across the game are weird. We have 2 types of dark caster and then hippy. Thereâs not many options especially considering the number of classes there are and all the different specs.
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⌠and create a whole new set of talents to buff it. Hard pass. Hard, hard pass.
And your personal insult aside, the devs have dictated that Welly or Bubbles or whatever other asinine name you all call it is dead. Deceased. The majority of us have been asking for itâs demise for years and they finally listened.
One âseriousâ frost mage and a few RP/Casual players arenât going to change that and the World of Warcraft is better for it.
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Youâre hurting yourself here, of the small sample of reworks Iâve viewed, alot of them seem to divide the tree clearly into 2 different playstyles, itâs not bad for frost mages to ask for one of the two to be pet based and it could release haters like yourself from being forced to use welly on IV. It makes additional sense to do this given the lack of enthusiasm for the deathborne theyâre trying to bring back. This need to control othersâ choices on these forums is kinda weird sometimes, weâre not really being given something better in place of the pet playstyle.
I mean you can be anti-fun and self defeating, or advocate for a win-win, itâs your choice.
Also you like demo, but hate mage pets? or are you playing demo because youâre forced to for some reason?
In their defense, Demonology Warlock was by lore and since Vanilla based around having a demon out. Mages donât have the WC3 lore about them summoning âpermanentâ Elementals⌠maybe Jaina does, but who cares about consistency in this argument. They do have one thing though, the Elemental wasnât introduced in WoW until TBC. Cause we all know just how complete WoW was with class design in the first three versions.
But none of the summons on the RTSes were permanent, thatâs why that doesnât hold much water for me as the archmage could have out up to 3 at once. Mage feels more based off of EQ wizard than its actual lore with how lock translated over to the MMO going from temporary pets to permanent, but somehow mage is stuck with temporary even though it had the same exact mechanics (well not quite, locks couldnât have more than 1 demon out at a time bsaed on mana regen rates, but they could do other things that are kinda wierd but in no way connected to the game now).
Of course lol.
Lock is inherently a pet spec. One elemental for one mage spec was always an outlier and Iâm ecstatic they removed it as it always seemed out of place.
Why are you so happy that lock went from temp pets in the RTSes to permanent but thereâs no similar lore expression for mages? Thatâs kinda weird IMO that you want one to go forward but not the other. Do you main your lock?
Thereâs literally 2 other specs that just pewpew. The idea that even half of one of the 3 total shouldnât express this fantasy is just bizarre imo.
I miss the on demand freeze, that was great defensively and offensive.
I donât miss the pet wandering off in pvp slowing my ability to mount.
I miss summoning it, I know that sounds weird, but I did it so often itâs weird not doing it anymore.
I donât miss how it literally did nothing else besides accidentally break my poly and pet freeze.
I miss it because itâs cute, and does remind me of the old Warcraft games.
I think it is probably best as part of a strong cooldown, like it is now. Iâm glad we still get to Summon one. I do wish there was a talent choice to give it more agency, power or longer duration so we could get more freezes out. More choices without going backwards with their design choice. A set piece that enhances it somehow would also be neat.
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Meh, I never liked the elemental. Made me feel like a Walmart warlock
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I think if they let us have it out when it wasnât active (without the annoying biscuits), it would help a lot as I was really looking forward to a day when I could have the perma welly out all the time with our BFA glyphs. Also, I would have been happy with the rework had the whole process been more honest, even if it didnât go the way Iâd hoped (if welly was actually balanced and lost by a significant margin), and I think itâs kinda dangerous to be okay with how they did it even if the result was good. I may be a minority, but herding us one way to control class design is essentially taking players out of the development process. At the very least I will not be strict maining my mage as it means just about any other aspect of the class I could enjoy could be railroaded at a momentâs notice.
Thatâs the way it is for every class. We are all bound by blizzards balancing shenanigans. Iâm sorry though, it sucks to lose something you enjoyed.
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So i went to level my mage and i though i was crazy cause i didnât found the water elemental.
it is now a lame cd that you summon, i wonder why they went in that direction. You would think they would go far beyond and make fire and arcane elemental for the other specs, not remove it all together.
Kinda killed my mood to play the spec, not gonna lie, having the option to opt for it or not should be the norm.
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While I understand RP is never the main focus of balancing decisions (and shouldnât be), thereâs no reason they couldnât have added an item that lets us summon the water elemental outside of Icy Veins and simply make it a non-combat pet. A lot of mage RPers used that pet, and itâs not really fair to have such an iconic fixture of the class identity taken away outside of extremely narrow burst phases.
If they are on here supporting the adding back of water elementals they are not trolls. They are players requesting a feature being added back. A Troll is a person who posts deliberately offensive or provocative messages in order to solicit a negative reaction.
The developers have just as much reason to listen to all of their player base as anyone else; which is not to mention that casuals are a significant amount of that player base and thus their subscription base. Money talks and BS walks.
Whether or not it comes back is pure speculation on your part and obviously at least some people do miss it, otherwise this thread would not exist.