I hate raiding and I love mythic+. Mythic+ is the best update ever for me. I’ve played since BC. Always loved 5 mans and mythic+ is perfect for me.
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I wouldn’t say taking 5 minutes before every trash pack to mark and assign long duration CC’s difficult to do.
Atleast with “Zerging” you have to think on your feat and pay attention to mob casting to interrupt.
I miss hours of twilight. I did that instead of LFR in Cata and was more than satisfied. The timer alone ensures I’ll never do a mythic, as if people weren’t gogogo as is. 
If only. But you translate a few seconds to 5 minutes. Now quite how it works in reality.
Yes, 5 minutes for marking is an exaggeration. However, marking before pulls is only necessary when learning the dungeon or teaching a large group of others.
Once people have enough runs into a dungeon under their belt, they have learned the abilities of the mobs in a pack. They know what needs to be interrupted, and marking before a pull and long duration CC is just slow, annoying, and ultimately unnecessary. There are still many instances where a long duration CC is super useful, and what makes M+ fun and challenging, is learning new tricks to make the run quicker, learning how to react when accidents happen. Without something to push us to do it quicker, it just stays the same ole slog, with a self-imposed timer.
5 man dungeons are more complex, but each ability is less punishing then they were Cata.
Op Mechagon was originally a challenge, and super punishing.
Then all the people complained and it got nerfed hard.
As far as “Zerging” dungeons
I’ve been doing that since I learned how to properly tank in BC
Zerging dungeons isn’t something new to M+, it’s just finally been pushed front and center because of it.
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Look, you got up to 13. Which is pretty great for BFA it self with 4 affix. I think you are able to make good judgement here.
My highest in legion was 26 and bfa 9 in season 2 before I stop.
Let’s say you join Mechagon. Why rushing something that could be “relaxed” mode or chill time. Especially with a pug. There is a huge difference between meeting requirements and a timer, over pugging something trivial.
This is what upset people like OP. People got the right to be a “first timer.” That is the real sake of this thread, imo.
It’s not really gogogo if your even average at the game. Whenever me and my friends do a key, we yolo half the time, troll wipes and still time it. Like you have to actually be healing the enemies to fail a +10 key to one mistake.
I timed an 18ml not long ago with like 3 wipes on the third boss. Key timers are very forgiving in most cases.
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so you want a 5man content that has no limit or weekly lock but that also drops normal + gear?
not gonna happen
I never did M+ in legion as i came back from a long time hiatus in 7.3.5 (I skipped MOP and WOD) and was still relearning my class and leveling up my alts, so I don’t know how difficult M+ is now compared to legion.
Also, the OP isn’t so much upset about M+ being a thing from my understanding. He just wants Raid style 5 man content that comes in teirs. Instead of having the same 8 or so dungeons the entire expansion. Start with 3 or 4 and add 1-3 new ones with every raid tier that step up the difficulty. Similar to how Op Mechagon was added and the difficulty was high initially.
When i first did Op Mech the first week, we were in there for a few hours figuring out what was one shotting us in trash pulls, learning boss mechanics, using CC etc. I loved every minute of it. I was more excited the first time i killed HM King Mechagon then i have been on any of our heroic raid kills.
Now HM Op Mech has just become a basic slog, and I am anxious to see it join M+ to have the Affixes change it up.
I am personally not trying to say M+ is here so people shouldn’t ask for challenging dungeons, because quite honestly, the dungeons we have are quite challenging, when they are new.
The first M0 dungeons I did we used a ton of long duration CC to clear because we didn’t know what was going on and had to learn.
I remember the first time i did Temple of Sethralis as a Mythic 2. My group couldn’t kill the first boss. We had long failed the timer before we gave up.
There was a time when i felt Raider .IO was toxic to the M+ scene. However, once i understood what it really meant it became a tool.
In the end, M+ dungeons aren’t the problem, it’s the mindset of the groups doing them. The one change I could see really helping would be a failed timer, but completed dungeon doesn’t drop the key level but keeps it the same. That would help reduce the go go go mentality as it would promote learning the dungeon at the key levels of 4/7/10.
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He’s actually stated that currently M+ loot gives too much, and that there should be a weekly cap to how much loot can be gained via M+
My latest Shrine of Storms key, my group wiped 3-4 times on the way to the first boss due to bad choices in pulls on my part and butt pulling because of it.
We managed to time it by taking our time the rest of the way.
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in the OP he said he wanted a 5man that he could run non stop dropping things from every boss every time with no timelimit or weekly lockdown, and this quote makes me think he think its ok for it to be comparable to normal raid
that wet dream is not gonna happen, what blizzard could do is allow M0 to be run non stop still dropping LFR gear
The most fun dungeon experience in the game now is queuing for random dungeons while levelling and running them with strangers. I really enjoy the odd dynamic. I’ve been in lots of these where it is so enjoyable that the same group re-queues for multiple dungeons in a row. Gets old after a while but there it is.
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I agree. Mythic+ was their way of bringing back 5 mans and it worked for awhile. But I’m tired of rushing too. Would rather go back to harder dungeons like za/zg from cata or halls of reflection from wrath.
I really like M+ and it scales in a way that nothing else could. That being said I really really liked mechagon week 1 when it was hard. I think both have their place and they could do with another mega dungeon
Mythic + is basically a way to force premades, as the classic crowd demands. The big question is whether or not the classic crowd even understands this trend and is willing to try retail again. This is basically what they demanded, since that crowd doesn’t want anyone else to easily group up.
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Another person who can’t read 
Someone who can read!
well then enlighten me please, normal raid drops 415, heroic drops 430, which Ilvl should your 5man proposition drop?
I haven’t played retail in a while, but what about making the gear level similar to raid finder but maybe a bit higher. I don’t think they’re asking for normal raid quality gear to drop for them though I don’t speak for them.
BTW this is not Alloria lol