Same, this is why I play classic. Just fun and no stress.
This is the main reason I don’t touch m+. That and all the pugs are filled with toxic people. I do just fine without doing it too. Can easily gear a new toon to about 425 ilvl before pushing into heroic raiding.
If I’m not mistaken
Heroics hold almost the same boss/dungeon mechanics as Mythic/Mythic+ and it’s repeatable
It’s a matter of perception really
If I use analogy
Heroic is studying for the test
Mythic is taking the test
and Mythic+ is when you join the workforce
if you do M+ you need to do exactly what you describe.
Marking isn’t required with an experienced group because everyone already knows what to do. When learning the Mythic Dungeons i used a lot of CC to figure things out. Then as I got more competent i stopped using hard CC like sheep etc because i wanted to speed things up. So we had to learn out to use interrupt rotations, a different form of CC to make larger group pulls safe. As I have been pushing higher, i’ve had to learn which abilities take priority for interrupts, stuns etc.
How is that not more challenging than just mindlessly sheeping/trapping/sapping all but one mob in the pull and slowly killing them one at a time?
Mythic Plus is far from just face roll AOE everything down. There is a lot of preprep and knowledge that goes into each pull. It’s just all the planning is done before the dungeon begins, and you need to know which mobs are going to be a challenge ahead of time and expect that your teammates know what to do when you get to said challenging mobs.
You need to try doing some Mythic Plus and pushing the keys before you come back stating that challenging 5 man content doesn’t exist. It’s a lot more challenging now then it was in Cata.
EDIT:
It sounds more like you want 1 shot mechanics brought back into 5 man dungeons. Which you won’t get in a heroic dungeon finder. Try doing the M0 content at the very least before you complain about wanting challenging 5 man content.
EDIT 2:
Yes Heroics are laughable now and you can ignore mechanics. However, you can go into Mythic to get the challenge of the higher damage that would require you to CC at lower ilvl. Mythic Dungeons are there to help teach you the trash mechanics, so you can learn to deal with them quickly and efficiently, then you move into M+ where you are a finely tuned Custodial Engineer throwing out the trash.
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It’s so challenging you don’t even have to succeed! Fail a 10 key and get rewarded with mythic raid gear at the end of the week! Such good design.
That depends on your definition of failure. If you complete the dungeon, you get the reward. If you fail the timer the key doesn’t get upgraded, but you still succeeded at completing the dungeon.
There are a lot of people out there that can’t complete (kill the last boss) of a Mythic 2 dungeon.
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5 man difficult content is the best dream blizzard had but coining Mythic + out and putting your “difficult” content on a timer was just always doomed to encourage the fastest zerg meta comps possible …
I would settle for 10 man big dungeons…doing those old school Scholo and BRS etc 10 palyer dungeons was fun.
Epic dungeons should be a thing. Scaling exsists …so why not design some dungeon encounters differently and have 5 or 10 player mini raids -_-
I like the idea of having dungeons scaleable to 10 man content, that could be pretty neat.
Once you’ve cleared content and learned the mechanics, the only way to make it more challenging is to add a timer and/or scaling up the damage/health/mechanics. The only way to be able to judge if you’re ready to move up a difficulty in a pve encounter is to add a timer. Either self imposed or by the game itself.
If you believe me to be incorrect. Please explain how the difficulty can be increased in repeatable pve content? And how you would know when you are ready to progress to a higher difficulty of the repeatable content.
Edit: if you don’t like the Timer, ignore the timer. Eventually your key will go up because you just naturally are clearing that fast. If you don’t think it’s difficult, what’s so easy about it? And what made Cata so difficult in comparison? Cata’s every mob having a one shot mechanic? Blizzard tried to bring back that concept with Op Mechagon, but whiners got that nerfed in the first week.
I don’t believe there’s an end all to the diablo 3 rift design which is M+ (ever increasing difficulty with modifiers).
M+ as the OP stated should stay for that market that enjoy a repetitive mode that increases the numbers each time you move up.
And that is there for those players and a viable way to obtain gear at the highest level.
For everyone else , the players who i would say enjoy Normal and Heroic raiding . Why not present a difficulty for them on a smaller scale, it never needs to reach M+ levels as that’s not the target. People still raid N and H raids with the same mechanics over and over for one major reason …gear . So does the difficulty ever need to spike up ? No. It could exist as a different route to progress that’s a change of style outside spamming mythic versions of dungeons you leveled up in already.
New flavors can be good as long as there’s a reward that’s not too low or too high .
They tried to make one with mechagon but nerfed it with hot fixes (didn’t even wait till reset) because people complained "It’S sO hArD iTs OvEr TuNeD "
I wish they had left it how it was
Because mechagon fell into the pool of all other dungeon content so it needed to be completed by the LFR-level of player .
It was left out of the auto que system though. To me it was clearly intended to have more of the old dungeon feel from bc etc.
I think they always need to normalize M0 level of content … i remember Kara was hard for a bit and i enjoyed that. idk why they needed to bring Mech down to the baseline difficulty for a new player to complete so quickly.
That’s why i think we need separate content like Kara that is strictly for people to have a challenge akin to normal/h raiding. Id like to see a shift to 6-8 player personally, something that you can solo tank but want 2 healers for even .
You missed a spot.
If that’s true it’s really sad.
I would be all for proving grounds or attundment or key system for things like mecha.
then in the entitlement kicks in and people start wanting everything given to them day 1.
I really can’t understand how these people didn’t realise that the ilvl Cap had gone up and maybe they should get some gear if they were struggling. But no it’s off to the forums to complain instead that they couldn’t clear new content on the first attempt
As for the group size changing that could be fun to play around with too.
Mainly because its still fairly difficult for being a base dungeon in an appropriately geared group (400-405 since it drops 415).
Having people gear up past its drops to make it reasonable is counter productive.
No, base dungeons have never or will never challenge players at your level.
I would put forward that this never existed to be “brought back”.
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A lot of people can’t read unfortunately 
I said in the very first sentence of the very first post 11 months ago: I am not asking for M+ to be removed for the people that like it. I do absolutely think it needs to have it’s reward structure retuned. Mythic raid gear from timing a 15? Fine. Mythic raid gear from failing a 10? Not fine.
But the crux of my post is that I had far more enjoyment in this game doing old school dungeons, such as classic/tbc.
I’m thoroughly enjoying running old dungeons in Classic right now, farming for gear (you know, you can actually farm BIS because there’s no TF and other random rubbish).
As much fun as I am having right now doing classic dungeons, it’s still repeating stuff I did 15 years ago. What I want is new content, in retail wow, that matches the experience. Stepped difficulty dungeons where you can activate hard modes like mechagon (or like DM tribute) is also good, as it allows extra challenge for better players.
This would have to tie in with fixing the awful loot system that currently exists though.
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I think this is by far more loot driven than dungeon issues.
It would need to go back to much scarcer loot, and much less sources.
Aka raid or die (which many loved).
Even for BfA, at release doing the M0s at low gear were fairly challenging as far as baseline dungeons go. Of course they were spent speed bumps for the elite, but everything is. Classic is showing that pretty well.