For Shadowlands could you guys possibly bring back/unprune 2-Handed Frost Death Knights as an option. I am not saying get rid of Dual-Wield but bring back 2-Hand for those who prefer the fantasy/appeal of it. It does make sense lore wise to me because Arthas was mainly a Frost Death Knight and he used a 2-Handed weapon (i.e Frostmourne).
They preach player agency. Time to offer it to us.
17 Likes
I’d settle just for a mog of it at this point though I’d rather use a two gander easy to switch specs.
7 Likes
I will settle for a cosmetic option, or beeing some % behind DW in dps if thats what it takes. BRING 2H FROST BACK BBY!
8 Likes
Nope, not settling for a cosmetic option. I want new gameplay with 2H. DW is mediocre. It’s self-evident in all aspects of the game.
14 Likes
And you still have all the DW chimps arguing that duel wield is functionally better than 2handed when thats only the case because they decided to functionally change the spec to suit DW. They also claim its better numerically but thats just blatantly incorrect considering the amount of buffs we needed to even be where we are in this patch
8 Likes
Bring it back!! 2H frost all day
8 Likes
I mainly PvP’d back in MoP and WoD when I played Frost. 2H did far more damage in PvP. I’m talking 200k Obliterates with perfectly lined-up bursting. DW? I don’t remember what the exact numbers for it were because I refused to stick with it, but I know they were not even close to 2H. DW was literally a proxy for Death Siphons. Your top damage in low-target PvP was Death Siphon. PvE was just irrelevant in WoD.
5 Likes
Then learn the lore, he wasnt mainly a frost dk.
BFA design is different than Wrath design or even WoD design. 2h did do less damage than DW. Only until they started to separate and each weapon set started to focus on certain things like obliterate with 2h and frost damage with DW did 2h even have a chance and it was a small window and a complete nightmare to buff. PvP with low armor opponents and you could hit crazy numbers with obliterate. Its not even up for debate. But that insane damage boost was like Blood in cata with death strike, it wasnt intended to be that high. The downtime during WoD was a big factor since they had to buff everything to make up for that downtime. Mages cried because there was nothing they could do in their entire kit to counter a Frost Dk with a 2h and if they just nerfed Obliterate then it would impact DW so they just removed the problem altogether. Then people were playing 2h early in BFA if I remember correctly since hey didnt have the weapon restrictions on the strike abilities and then it was wasnt long until they put them in place.
They had no reason to put the restrictions in with Legion because you could only use the artifact. I remember seeing that you could use a 2h and still use abilities and then came its true death.
Its pretty clear that they just dont want to go through that balance nightmare again, and unless people are trying to solve that balance nightmare its not going to come back. Its really that simple.
People have and still are solving the balancing issue, Theres been many posts many theories ideas etc that have been introduced by the community that would have balanced out 2hand.
Aside from that I just want to point out that your argument against 2handed frost because of its gross obliterates and the whole mage thing sounds like yet again another simple tuning issue that couldve been resolved without removing the 2handed weapon
Something you fail to realize is that they didnt remove 2handed because of balance. It never was about balance it was quite literally about making frost more seperated from other specs since blizzard felt that there was to many 2handed specs in the game. Thats the actual reason they went with duel wield. The pendulum couldve swung either way, We couldve had duel wield removed as the primary playstyle and they couldve built the legion artifact to be frostmourne and for frost to play as a 2handed playstyle, All the talents wouldve been specifically made for 2hand and we couldve seen this exact situation but flipped had they decided to do that.
You CANNOT argue balance when talking about this subject. BALANCE is completely subjective and changes constantly. They EASILY could make frost a 2handed spec next week if they wanted to. Its not a difficult redesign. It has always just been about blizzard wanting another duel wield spec in the game and for some reason that completely isnt justified by lore nor fantasy they chose frost
4 Likes
Alright, balance WoD 2h and DW. If its so easy then go for it. I would like to see you try. Oh, and dont buff or nerf the other weapon set in trying to do balance.
This would have been the actual reason they removed the option. Like how they made BrM monk 2h only and WW monk DW only, despite having identical playstyles.
2h and DW frost did work quite differently, with 2h benefiting Obliterate and DW benefitting frost damage. They could make it so instead they have identical playstyle, with special attacks with DW just hitting with both weapons at the same time.
Unfortunately the damage of the two playstyles still wouldn’t be quite identical. Given how many players love to min-max their dps, this would cause many complaints. Imagine if DW were 0.5% behind on max theoretical dps. This would cause many complaints with players saying they were being forced to give up on dual wielding even though they prefer it.
I would love two handers to come back. Let it be player choice on what they went to use either dual wield or 2handers. Personally I love having the two handed because I play frost and unholy a lot. And blood. It just convient for the weapon to use across all spec. I really do miss using it. It’s the reason why I went and got shadowmourne. Used to duel people with that back in wod times. And I didn’t even use blood presences. Was entirely in frost presence just for giggles. And it was fun.
Here’s to future hope for bringing back the two handers. Also miss class buffs like winter horn which was equivalent to warriors battle shout buff. And other cool abilities.
5 Likes
You mean how it was in Wrath where it was literally just a choice and you didnt pick up Threat of Thassarian and one other talent because it was a waste if you wanted to play 2h, even though you had less dps than DW because of other mechanics? Create a new 2h Runeforge combining Fallen Crusader and Razorice and then just aknowledge that one or the other is going to have less damage than the other?
Roll it out tomorrow and I would support it. But trying to go back to WoD when the big crits really became popular, its not going to happen. Back in wrath DW hit almost as hard as 2h Blood. So the big crits with DW can be there.
3 Likes
There’s bound to be a way to make it work.
From a purely mathhammer perspective, there is likely not a way to make both 100% equivalent in every way at damage dealing (except maybe at baseline without taking into account talents), but it would still be nice to have back.
Even if they aren’t 100% equivalent, so long as they are CLOSE ENOUGH, I think it would be nice.
8 Likes
Bring back Might of the Frozen Wastes/Threat of Thassarian and modify each of it’s halves to make equal damage. Each half can be manipulated independently and only goes for one playstyle.
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Well holinka on twitter liked a comment from someone saying 2h frost should come back. Doesnt mean a damn thing ofc but one can hope!!
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Got a link to the tweet? We all need to like and retweet it so he can see it.
https://twitter.com/Rystuh/status/1191065706499985408?s=20
Here is the tweet. If you click “likes”, Holinka is one of the ones that like it. Again it doesnt mean anything but as someone said; You cannot kill hope.
2 Likes