Exactly finally someone knows
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anything they change for m+ will effect raid…brew haven’t changed seriously for 7 years+ and the real problems are showing hard. They need a rework and now.
People say brew is and endgame tank but yet everytime in Bfa/Sl and DF was still got over shined easily to other tanks that can do everything better, easier and faster without an healer… It will repeat. I am not saying it never been good but never great.
its needs something new and not so messy like stagger getting nerf every xpack.
if they do want this fix the tradeoff of the skill needed vs outpout, we should be near prot warriors/blood on damage with the skill needed.
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For sure but I don’t think majorly.
Buffs can be targeted to M+/Trash, just some examples (i have excluded obvious caveats like capped scaling to keep it short).
- A talent that scales defensively based based on mobs in close proximity.
- A talent that scales defensively based on number of mobs hit.
- A talent that scales based on number of hits/dodges taken recently (current talent Staff and Anvil is normalized so does not do this!)
- Etc
Self healing has greater value in M+ vs raids where you have endless residual heals moping up damage so there is room to wiggle there. White damage is generally more of an issue in M+ vs raids (outside of mechanics that specifically target this) so there is some wiggle room there.
Angry dave is just sitting there being largely ignored. Brew could really use a Druid Incarn like CD. Load him up with some m+ focused buffs and we have a win that is likely to be ignored for raids outside unique situations.
Changes like the above would effect raids for sure but if done right would largely be of niche value and all tanks have their niches.
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Agreed, we’re very close we just need bliz to pull the trigger.
I’ve tried it off and on, does not do enough to justify having another keybind. I could see wanting it if all of the passive talent options (like PTA) were viable. But currently yeah, Special Delivery is great.
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Sometimes it feels like Brewmaster isn’t much as button bloated, but that it has too many buttons that don’t really interact with each other smoothly…Or they do interact with each other but one feels lackluster as a result.
1st: Exploding Keg. It’s a nice defensive, but it doesn’t really have any additional interactions with anything else except for the extra damage, which (imo, clunkily, as I hate Spinning Crane Kick) encourages SCK kick (and RJW) due to the multi-hit for damage. It’s just something you use every 1min that doesn’t really empower anything else. It also only works on melee damage, which isn’t really something I’ve ever thought I needed more mitigation for. It does nice damage and is nice to have, but at the same time feels lackluster - thus, it can feel like button bloat.
2nd: Keg Smash and Breath of Fire. The latter requires the former to apply the DoT, but it’s a rather weak DoT, the up front damage isn’t great (and insofar as I know still isn’t great even if you take stuff like Dragonfire Brew), and it’s just a 5% DR debuff. Much like Exploding Keg, it’s certainly nice to have, and I can appreciate Blizz’s attempt to make an interaction here, but it ultimately falls flat and so can feel like button bloat.
Other skills are just quite lackluster, like Fortifying Brew. Where other specs get strong, energetic stuff in the 2-4 min cooldown range (bear isn’t my fav tank right now but sometimes I play it just for the Incarn serotonin), we get…20% more health and 20% DR. This is both boring and just feels bad, though I do give it some wiggle room due to overall design stuff (the good 'ol ‘monk being designed to have less stronk big cooldowns, but stronger small CD ones and other advantages’). Invoke Niuzao just feels lackluster to press, and stuff like Fortifying Brew: Determination isn’t something I’ve ever seen recommended.
I do like the general gist of things - a sort of ‘combo’ tank where stuff happens after two skills (BoK → Anything else) but there’s just not enough oomph. I certainly don’t know 100% how to fix this, but adding more combo-y stuff between the skills that feel like bloat would be a decent start and could be a way to, as another poster mentioned, try to give BrM some M+ focused buffs.
Zen Meditation is another good example - I hate it. It’s unique, strong when when you can actually find a way to use it, and I hate it. It has a completely conflicting design and doesn’t let you use it while actually tanking. Why can’t it be changed to something like…Idk, a stagger buff, then the monk gets a small zone to move around in to maintain the buff for damage and mitigation? We have a Ring of Peace already, give me a Ring of Violence.
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To be frank, WoO shouldn’t even exist anymore. It’s an old leftover from SL covenants and in terms of class fantasy has very little to do with monks.
I won’t bother typing out what I typed in one of the other dozen of these “BrM sucks” threads, but to keep it brief, the entire spec has no direction in terms of class fantasy/design. It’s a complete mess and needs a full rework, right now it’s a half dozen different competing “ancient Asian man” archetypes.
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I think Brewmaster Monk mastery needs to be revisited. Its seriously lackluster. I don’t understand why it hasn’t been made to interact with things such as stagger and/or brews. Make mastery elongate stagger duration by X amount of seconds, or make it so that your purifying brew clears X% more amount of stagger, or make it so that tiger-palm/exploding keg provides additional CDR to brews.
The current Brewmaster mastery could literally be a single talent node in their specialization tree. That’s how uninspired and useless it feels.
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The biggest problem for me is, that we are the most complex and difficult to play tank, but we dont get anything in return for that. We just do okish dmg and are the least tankiest tank. We dont bring great utility, no cr, no noticable off heal, nothing.
Even the 5% physical dmg buff is a joke. Close to all classes do magic dmg, even melee classes.
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Thats how i feel theres no tradeoff, Our damage is so awful to other tanks.
we need an hard rework to get to the point we would matter or an 20%+ on everything
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I second that. It never felt like it belonged. Bone dust brew may have been weaker but at least it was a brew. WoO belongs with the warrior spec. Time for a replacement.
Thematically that might make sense but practically losing WoO for BDB would be a big loss for us.
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THIS. Exactly this
My mate literally said “why are you playing monk when you could just play your prot pally and do more damage with half the stress”
So true rn
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Now what if we self healed off fire damage again, now that “Button Bloat” actually has usage.
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Then your charred passions would become charred dreams.
That would go a long way toward improving Brew’s performance in keys without making it any stronger in raids. Which is why Blizzard will never do it.
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maybe a useless 2c but I main healer (not this toon, lol) and have healed every tank. I could be convinced that BrMs need more ‘juice’ (not that I think they’re weak or soft, everything is viable up to 10, not much exp beyond that), or mechanics that reward complex play - all dungeons are currently ‘zugzug’ in terms of play with very few exceptions involving transcend. So, +1 for OP
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Honestly unless you’ve experienced decent level keys (not running top tier content here anymore) on multiple tanks it’s tough to describe how brew feels at the moment. Viable at 10 is different than watching warrior/pally/druid do them MUCH easier.
And honestly 10s today are just being outgeared really. So that alone makes more specs “viable”
To me it’s never about “how is my play easy or hard on the healer?” Although we obviously have to take heals into consideration our gameplay under normal circumstances doesn’t place that as a priority.
War and Paladin can do 10s 20 to 30ilvls lower than Brew. Thats how “viable” brew is now.
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I switch to pally and i was doing a millon dps at 578 livl and now 3 millon+ at 610 normal pulls.
Brew is not viable at all. The only brew who actually doing high keys that are insane players and they would be doing 15s with pally so much easier.
I was beating people at 580 in dps that were 25+ ilvls in keys. I am sorry that should NOT be happening and be so tanky that i could do 6s at the same ilvl…
plus with all the Stuff that pallys have. I have carried alot of the keys in intrrupts and stops on top of that dps and the normal tanking stuff
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Yeah I’m now trying to time 12s and can confirm: not a Brm in sight 
sorry Bliz forgot u exist
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