I tried to like Brewmaster. I gave it a shot last expansion and in this one. It just isn’t fun for me and the key reason is the button bloat.
It just feels like there are way too many abilities that need to be keybinded. A bunch of low impact rotational abilities as well as a bunch of cooldowns. I know they tried to lessen this but the problem still persists for me.
And I know that there are builds that accommodate a less button-bloat playstyle, there are just so many abilities that have a more passive option, but the passive options are inferior many times and if you opt to take all of them you end up with a much more inferior build. Here are some examples:
Weapons of Order vs Press The advantage
Dampen Harm vs Dance of the Wind
Chi Burst vs Chi Wave
Yu’Lon’s Grace vs Diffuse Magic
Black Ox Brew vs Bob and Weave (these honestly are good choices between them)
I also think there are some abilities/mechanics that I feel like could be condensed/combined such as Keg Smash & Breath of Fire. Maybe Breath of Fire’s effect could just be coupled into Tiger Palm/Spinning Crane Kick.
The Hero talents also just feel so forgettable compared to other classes. Its almost as if the devs needed to make them super passive because of Brewmaster’s button bloat.
And lastly some of their defensives could be made better. Zen Meditation just seems so niche. I recall there being a legendary (or maybe talent) that made the ability more applicable in more situations.
Anyways I could be a total noob. But I just have a much easier and chill time tanking with other specs such as Prot Warrior, Prot Paladin, and Blood Death Knight than I do with Brewmaster Monk.
Massively disagree with you in terms of button bloat. Not that they shouldn’t absolutely buff the alternatives you mentioned. But they shouldn’t touch BoF or any other rotational abilities.
I do think Exploding Keg is kind of superfluous and could be added somewhere else like combining it with Weapons of Order or something. I also hate Zen Med and would not miss it.
Transcendence (to place and to port) (GB last boss knockback and Dawnbreaker 3rd boss knockback)
Zen Meditation (Very niche use, but good vs tank buster abilities)
Racial Arcane Torrent (dispels shields in Mists and DR% buffs in Siege for example)
Tiger’s Lust (madly powerful group utility)
That’s nearly 30 mandatory buttons to maximize your gameplay. And I use them all. Every single dungeon. Every brewmaster done.
Bear has about 12 buttons. Paladin has around 18 iirc. idk about prot warrior nor DK.
But to OP’s point…There really isn’t much to condense.
Right now, going passives is a powerloss. Even press for Advantage is a big dps and survivability loss. Yes, 2 less buttons, as you don’t have WoO either…but WoO is a very powerful cooldown.
As for Zen Meditation, there are a few niche uses for it, but it’s mostly to off-set some of the AoE damage so healer has 1 less target to worry about. Some bosses, such as 3rd boss in CoT, have really strong AOE pulse channels.
In Shadowlands, Zen Meditation was great for soaking orbs in Spires of Ascension on 3rd boss and in ToP on stiches tank buster abilities in high tyrannical keys.
Taking anything away would be treated as a nerf, unless something gets buffed instead.
Brewmaster is also definitely the hardest tank to master imho. I’m only doing 9’s, and for the most part, I do well. There are some places/spots that HURT A LOT, but overall, all healers are very pleased with my perfomance.
I didn’t say we don’t have a lot of buttons. I disagree that it’s a problem, I play Brew because I enjoy the amount of buttons. I don’t want to see any of the core rotation gone, except maybe Exploding Keg as I mentioned. I’d also be fine losing Jade Wind and Zen Med (assuming we get a defensive buff to compensate), not that I’ve taken Jade Wind at all this expansion.
Not every spec is going to be for everyone, I highly recommend VDH to anyone that likes Brew but thinks it has too many buttons. Aside from the aesthetic and stagger, it’s similar and does a lot of the same stuff better; And it only has like 6 buttons.
Thank you both for your replies. Whether you agree with me or not. I personally have been pushed away from Brewmaster Monk because of the button bloat. You agree that there are a lot of buttons and the case has been made that the passive options are generally inferior. I have even resorted to creating cast-sequence macros to alleviate some of the button bloat.
I found Jade Wind to be a lackluster in higher keys. The throwing keg talent in the node contributes far more damage than Wind in higher keys. And it’s a passive.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Brewmaster. It’s the only spec I play now. But it is a complex spec and really new player unfriendly.
Brew is one of the specs that they haven’t changed in 8+ and their masery is outdated. They don’t feel like an tank. They feel like an dps that has stagger to carry them. Its fun spec but they needs to rethink alot of the basics.
Just buff and nerf them wont fix the overall problems. Stagger is messy and always getting nerf or changed slightly.
Our mastery is outdated and needs to be useful, Not more dodge yay!.
CB is so weak that in 8+ getting white swing out in a few secs
Some talents are just dead or not fun to play
The passives are so much less powerful to the point theres 80k+ drop for WoO/PtA. Thats HUGE btw lol.
Theres more but its not like its enjoyable to play. Its so noticeable to many people that brew need an hard rework and make it on pair to the other tanks
.