I hate this notion that “leveling is inconsequential so we should just forget/ignore improvements that could be made”.
I mean, yeah, sure, only endgame “matters”, but I would like to see the leveling experience being improved/smoothed/made more fun and not something to skip through as fast as possible.
It surely wouldn’t be that difficult to implement a bronze-like system, esp. since they already did that.
Me too, and with them acknowledging the “alt” process in recent interviews, I’m hopeful that it’s not just lip service to “having” alts, versus “growing” them. But for many players out there, they already have their max level character(s), and if they want a new one, they are incentivized to buy the boost. That’s where I am coming from with Retail not really being about the journey anymore–it’s the treadmill. That’s why I keep harping on this scaling worlds thing, because it is a mechanism that really makes the veil over the treadmill transparent.
Scaling is… weird.
I can kinda see why they wanted it, but yet at the same time, it creates a bunch of problems.
I played Classic TBC to level a character for Wrath Classic (which I wound up not even playing because of how they fumbled the RDF debacle), and right away, first thing I noticed, is that LEVEL MATTERS. And you have a difficulty slider that is levels. If you’re falling behind on gear, you go after green quests until you catch up. If you’re doing fine, you go after yellows.
And if you see a really nice reward you want NOW on an orange quest… well, you had reason to break out those CDs that you never normally use, because you’ll probably need them if you’re taking on an Orange quest.
And that was awesome.
I sorely miss that kind of gameplay.
I can usually find greens to upgrade with for a hundred or less, especially at low levels. Plus, if you do dungeons you get level appropriate gear from the bag rewards at the end, so you shouldn’t fall TOO far behind.
Just buy a new weapon every few levels or so to keep up.
I do agree with you there, and that’s one of the major things I love about Classic. Level scaling was one of the biggest things the game ever did to make it feel like a completely different experience.
I think level scaling should have some range. Like, basically a difficulty slider to play “easy mode” where the scaling drops off by 2-4 levels so you can breathe a little.
There are certain break points where the scaling spikes pretty drastically.
Could use that system to implement a kind of “hard mode” too, for people who want to level a little faster or just feel threatened while questing.
I mean, people have wanted harder leveling for a while. I see this as a way to placate those players, forcing them to do low gear runs.
Not sure how that would work, with the way the game is currently set up.
I mean, like I said, I get why they did scaling, and it was kind of necessary, but yet at the same time it introduced problems and it threw the whole game’s structure off.
It opened doors, like making every zone relevant even at endgame, without creating pockets of places lowbies can’t go yet, but yet it also introduces problems like those that spawned this thread.
BUUUUT.
At least they didn’t do what they did in Shadowlands, where enemies react to your current I-level so that leveling in badly outdated gear and/or naked is better than wearing meh gear.
I took a max level arms warrior to Shadowlands (during Shadowlands), while she was wearing gear from 2 expansions ago. She had an easier time killing stuff, than my quested green characters did.
You’re right. Timewalking gives EXCELLENT experience.
I honestly feel if they started the experiment over today, World of Warcraft wouldn’t have levels, and each zone would have a reputation-like system that increases character power while performing activities in that zone.
The endgame loop is open regardless of level, and of course, there would be an “evade” or “dodge roll” button to escape mechanics instead of just walking out of it… tanks would need to skill parry, etc. etc. (copy paste souls-like mechanics).
But that’s because the expectation for RPGs now is Elden Ring instead of D&D.
That sounds like Star Wars Galaxies level of fumbling.
You can’t just change the entire game on a whim, and SW:G is a lesson to us all about why that will never work.
If I wanted a souls-like MMO with dodge rolling and crap I’d go play Genshin Impact or something along those lines.
I play a hotbar button MMO because I want a hotbar button MMO.
Oh agree, it doesn’t mesh with the current model and what everyone playing it is here for, but you can see the writing on the walls everywhere that it feels like thats what development wishes they were working with…
And yeah, Black Desert Online came to my mind.
You can see some scraps of evidence even in D4, which came from an isometric click-to-move, but they needed to add an evade button. Even “Retro” ARPGs injected the dodge roll button, like Children of Morta.
As far as the zone-based character power, you see that with Hunt companions and the Azure Span mini-zone (forget what it’s called atm, tip of the tongue). They give “microboosts” to encourage that area content/engagement, but it doesn’t extend beyond those walls.
It’s an observation, not a desire. 
If wishes were horses, we’d all be eating steak.
-Jayne
IMO, I think the devs need to wake up and realize that they should be embracing what WoW does have, instead of trying to push the game towards something it isn’t.
WoW has levels, and RPG elements, etc and regardless how “obsolete” people think having levels is, WoW should embrace it, because it sets it apart from other MMOs that are trying to move away from leveling.
Kinda like JRPGs and Turn-based systems. Everybody goes “pfft, turn-based is so yesteryear, we want ACTION!” … but yet, somebody makes a new turn-based game and it blows up in sales, because it turns out people DO want turn based games.
EDIT: WoW does kinda have an evade button. It’s called Roll. Though only one class has it (unless you slot the gem in Remix).
1-5 k per piece is cheap considering heirlooms are so expensive
Outside of that one single bow I saw on the AH, the rest of them were not 1-5k.
They were FIFTEEN THOUSAND.
Roll exists! But not really for directional evasion. LOL
I would weep from joy if Roll came with invincibility frames.
Night Elf can Shadowmeld certain projectiles, so I’m not removing the possibility.
rough, must be a low pop server, idk…
I certainly wouldn’t pay 15k for a piece that will be replaced in 2h.
Roll is more for escaping AoEs painted on the ground than it is for i-frames, obviously.
But it is a quick movement kinda like dodge rolling, even if it doesn’t have i-frames.
Moon Guard is not exactly a low pop server. But yes, that’s exactly my point why I roll my eyes at the notion of expecting to buy anything from the AH.
But, as stated earlier in the thread, I did get lucky and saw one single 70G bow that I did buy.
You don’t have fine-point control with Roll in WoW.
You are 4x more likely to use it to get back to the monster, than you are to escape its attack.
The real issue is stupidly large jump in item level going from pre-DF to DF content.
I mean, it’s truly ridiculous. You’re going from an item level of ~150-170 (180 if you got a blue from a quest just before/at level 70) to 330+. So let’s say 150 item levels for a nice, tound number.
Stat growth in WoW has ALWAYS been exponential, somewhere around 1% per item level. So that 150 item level jump isn’t a 150% increase… in fact, it’s closer to 450%.
The game’s scaling is beyond atrocious, to the point falling behind in gearing curve in the 60-70 range is going to make the player feel crippled because the game has outscaled their gear progression.
It’s the EXACT same issue as MoP Remix where players suddenly felt extremely weak approaching level 70… and if anything, until they upgraded their gear a couple of times after hitting level 70.
Blizz’ solution? Give players enough currency to buy that first upgrade, because they don’t want to touch the scaling itself.
You can plow through dungeons, can’t you? Even follower dungeons will gear you but there will be plenty of normals getting stomped by alts in exactly the same spot as you.