BM Needs a Full Rework

[Turbokiller-thunderlord]

Personally, I feel like Survival should become BM, giving the melee spec the more powerful exotic pets, freeing up a spec for ranged survival / munitions expert.

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

As I mentioned earlier in this topic, I don’t believe BM needs a complete rework.

@Ghorak-laughing-skull

A full rework? No.

But some elements do need to be looked at again. Mostly talents but also things such as BM’s cleaving capabilities, burst dmg, along with AoE capabilities in general.

But it’s also my belief that some things need to be changed, especially looking at talent choices.

If it was up to me, I would make the following changes(see the link): Beast Mastery - future improvements[Partial rework]

@Turbokiller-thunderlord

Personally, I feel like Survival should become BM, giving the melee spec the more powerful exotic pets, freeing up a spec for ranged survival / munitions expert

It’s ofc your opinion. Although I would argue that RSV should be added back in as a 4th option. It doesn’t have to be a case of “either/or” in terms of any of the current specs we have in regards to RSV.

[Turbokiller-thunderlord]

Yeah I hear ya. It is just my opinion but I really do think BM fits more thematically for the melee spec, being more attuned to the pet, having more synergy with the pet than ranged. Ranged already has the benefit of being out of harms way. I think it would give the melee spec what it needs.

[Vitwolfen-nazjatar (Vitwolfen)]

I think I’m caught right between you two.

For the time being, I’d be satisfied with Beast Cleave becoming more interesting, our burst being improved, and our talent choices increased.

…But were time and resources less of a concern, I’d largely redo all three specs.

Also:

@Rathomarr-amanthul

A Murder of Crows – REWORK
Call upon your crow allies to permanently attack your target applying a debuff that increases damage taken from your pets by 5%. Can be applied to a new target after 1 minute or if the target dies.
Basically this is Hunter’s Mark but it is a choice and may be a better one for pure single-target fights.

Please, anything but this.

As not to just be the “No. […Silence…]” guy, some (highly spitball) food for thought:

A Murder of Crows - 2-minute cooldown. oGCD.

Command 8 crows to descend upon your target and enemies near it for 12 seconds, each dealing X damage per second. Each successive crow attacking the same target deals 10% less damage. Crows who kill an enemy gain a 30% Haste buff and move to other engaged enemies nearby. Killing an enemy reduces the cooldown of a Murder of Crows by Y seconds.

Reactivate this ability during its duration to have your Crows gather around a new central target or disperse among all available targets, alternating.

• Technically, crows don’t have to land the finishing blow, only be targeting that enemy when it dies.

I obviously haven’t mathed out an appropriate X or Y yet. This is intended as a pumper/cincher cooldown with highly varied (and thus dungeon-dependent) potency. In Necrotic Wake, for instance, it might rip right through weak but massive packs, especially when not running alongside a lot of uncapped AoE, while in dungeons with few but deadly mobs it can provide necessary focus damage to finish off a couple of Raging enemies, for instance, but will do notably less overall damage.

[Phindo-agamaggan]

@Rathomarr-amanthul

Most importantly remove the minus 35% pet damage aura it applies because it is applying to all summoned pets, those from encounters, quests, trinkets, dire beasts, etc. Leave all other pets untouched, just have the second pet do less damage.

I never understood this. Why does every other pet class including Monks not get the same nerf to pet damage.

[Ghorak-laughing-skull]

@Turbokiller-thunderlord

Yeah I hear ya. It is just my opinion but I really do think BM fits more thematically for the melee spec, being more attuned to the pet,

If you look at what support the idea of a melee hunter has in the game, in some ways yes.

But either way, the current BM has a theme built around ranged gameplay and reliance on pets, and while I do think there are quite a few things that need to be changed, as per the link in my previous reply…the actual base approach to the spec and the intended fantasy does fit it very well.

@Turbokiller-thunderlord

I think it would give the melee spec what it needs.

I’m hesitant to comment on what MSV should or should not have/get. Mostly because no matter what, as long as it stays focused on melee-combat, I will not touch it.

I will say this though, what they did going into BfA, with the most recent redesign, they essentially turned it into a melee-version of BM, but instead of some additional elements that would coincide with either of those main themes, they added other random things like thrown bombs or an out-of-touch crossbow.

The biggest issue is really based on how they copied over quite a few signature elements from BM, either literally, or with minor re-skins, and they did all this after having said what they did in regards to their comparison of MM and RSV from before Legion. How RSV was “too similar to MM”, which is what led to the major rework in the first place.

If that gigantic slap in the face isn’t reason alone to give us RSV back as a 4th spec, I don’t know what is…

Especially considering how RSV did not actually share any abilities with MM at the time. All they shared was the very basic theme of both being designed around the use of ranged weapons, while specifics were entirely different to one another. If that’s all that was needed as an excuse then…how can, as an example, Mages have 3 specs that all focus on casting spells? If the specifics don’t matter, if only the most superficial element of focus is what determines variation…yeah.

End of rant…

@Vitwolfen-nazjatar

I think I’m caught right between you two.

For the time being, I’d be satisfied with Beast Cleave becoming more interesting, our burst being improved, and our talent choices increased.

Oh I agree, if we look at our current situation, in relation to where we are in time in this expansion, I have no desires for major reworks.

Buff Beast Cleave’s AoE-potential, either it’s target cap and/or throughput per-target-hit.

Add some variable(or constant) to for example Bestial Wrath which makes it more powerful(it provides a higher increase to damage dealt). Giving us more burst-potential.

Fix some underlying problems with certain talents, such as the 35%-deficit aura tied to Animal Companion, it affecting other talents. Stomp being glitchy in terms of activasion. And more…

@Vitwolfen-nazjatar

…But were time and resources less of a concern, I’d largely redo all three specs.

Well, you know where I’m at. If we look to the future and 10.0 and onwards…

#Beast Mastery - future improvements[Partial rework]

Some testing to adjust numbers aside, give me that for BM and I’d be all good with how it plays, and what choices we have within.

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Have you had any time checking my last reply to you in there btw?^^

I’ve made some small changes to the concept, particularly with a few talents, and the Mastery-effect.