You can argue the same about playing MM because that’s also no longer “meta”.
If you’re not a Fire Mage/Boomkin/WW/Outlaw, are you deliberately holding your group back if you dare sign up for M+?
The difference is that you can’t just click a button and respec to Fire Mage.
Why draw the line at “you shouldn’t have to make a new character”? Why do you deem that not acceptable, but you think it’s fair to “force” people to do the following:
-
Refarm a new set of gear with different stat priorities. We must not “deliberately hold our group back” by using poor stats on our gear now, right?
-
Farm different trinkets as their performance greatly varies based on spec.
-
Upgrade brand new conduits
-
Completely alter your soulbinds
-
Maybe even completely swap your covenants (in the case of some classes having to swap MS - Shaman, DK, Mage are great examples of this), which is, in itself, a multiple-week endeavour because of the atrocious renown catch-up. It’s bad to “deliberately hold our group back” by being a sub-optimal covenant after all.
-
Farm a new legendary power recipe.
-
Spend hours in Torghast to acquire more Soul Ash. Of course this is timegated too, so this also takes several weeks.
-
Spend 6 figures of gold to buy a new legendary precursor
-
Do steps 6-8 again, some legendaries might perform better in certain scenarios, and we can’t have you “deliberately holding your group back” by having a sub-optimal legendary now, can we?
-
Spend hundreds of thousands of gold, or pay real money to win, for a race swap - BiS race will vary dependant on spec, and we shouldn’t “deliberately hold or group back” by not being a BiS race, right?
Swapping specs hasn’t been “just press one button 4Head” for several years now.
You don’t really have to do any of these things except the legendary. And you could have done that by week 3 since rank 1 legendary is 99% as effective as rank 4.
It takes very little effort to swap between MM and BM. They use the same covenant and the same soulbind. The only thing you have to swap is your legendary.
I don’t know why you are pretending otherwise. It’s fine if you don’t want to play MM, but it’s also fine if people would prefer players who care about performance.
Simulations wholly disagree.
It takes very little effort to swap between MM and BM. They use the same covenant and the same soulbind.
This is true for Hunter. Not for everybody though - what about Frost Mages? Should they have to swap specs are not “pUrPoSeFuLlY HoLd ThEiR GrOuP BaCK” even though it would mean having to change covenants? Or are they absolved of your judgement because of that extra step?
It actually makes sense to make the most rotationally complicated choice the highest damage one.
The thing is that isn’t at all true for Frost mage, which is very good in M+. BM is not.
But Frost is still worse than Fire, so (by your previous comment’s logic) aren’t they still deliberately holding their group back? Or are they absolved of your judgment because it’s not as severe? And if that’s the case, where do you draw the line?
Safe to say most people would draw the line at a 50% dps loss.
- Buff Kill Command by 25%
- Animal Companion should be baseline. Bring back essence swapper.
- Remove the damage reduction aura for pets.
- We’re the master of beasts, yet we have the same pet res timers as MM?
- Buff mastery in the calcs by 50%.
- Keep Rylak’s leggo at 40%. No reason to finetune this for 5% when Boomkins and Fire Mages are so beyond ridiculous right now.
- Remove the AOE Cap on Beast Cleave.
2 Likes
It makes no sense at all to have two spells that are not part of your rotation that are purely utility to be turned into part of a damage rotation.
The equivalent is having mages be required to cast create refreshment and blink into it in order to get a damage burst.
It is terrible design. Period.
6 Likes
That’s just, like, your opinion, man!
ETA: BTW, I eagerly await the mage “Hyperactive Maw Waiter” legendary!
This, this is gold. I rate this comment high. They should also do this for fire mages! It would be so lol funny.
Animal Companion should be baseline, but also completely cosmetic. I prefer one pet, and I should not have a DPS loss because I prefer one pet.
You’re right about everything else though.
2 Likes
Personally, I feel like Survival should become BM, giving the melee spec the more powerful exotic pets, freeing up a spec for ranged survival / munitions expert.
As I mentioned earlier in this topic, I don’t believe BM needs a complete rework.
But it’s also my belief that some things need to be changed, especially looking at talent choices.
If it was up to me, I would make the following changes(see the link): https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/beast-mastery-future-improvementspartial-rework/885639
It’s ofc your opinion. Although I would argue that RSV should be added back in as a 4th option. It doesn’t have to be a case of “either/or” in terms of any of the current specs we have in regards to RSV.
Yeah I hear ya. It is just my opinion but I really do think BM fits more thematically for the melee spec, being more attuned to the pet, having more synergy with the pet than ranged. Ranged already has the benefit of being out of harms way. I think it would give the melee spec what it needs.
I think I’m caught right between you two.
For the time being, I’d be satisfied with Beast Cleave becoming more interesting, our burst being improved, and our talent choices increased.
…But were time and resources less of a concern, I’d largely redo all three specs.
Also:
Please, anything but this.
As not to just be the “No. […Silence…]” guy, some (highly spitball) food for thought:
A Murder of Crows - 2-minute cooldown. oGCD.
Command 8 crows to descend upon your target and enemies near it for 12 seconds, each dealing X damage per second. Each successive crow attacking the same target deals 10% less damage. Crows who kill an enemy gain a 30% Haste buff and move to other engaged enemies nearby. Killing an enemy reduces the cooldown of a Murder of Crows by Y seconds.
Reactivate this ability during its duration to have your Crows gather around a new central target or disperse among all available targets, alternating.
- Technically, crows don’t have to land the finishing blow, only be targeting that enemy when it dies.
I obviously haven’t mathed out an appropriate X or Y yet. This is intended as a pumper/cincher cooldown with highly varied (and thus dungeon-dependent) potency. In Necrotic Wake, for instance, it might rip right through weak but massive packs, especially when not running alongside a lot of uncapped AoE, while in dungeons with few but deadly mobs it can provide necessary focus damage to finish off a couple of Raging enemies, for instance, but will do notably less overall damage.
I never understood this. Why does every other pet class including Monks not get the same nerf to pet damage.
If you look at what support the idea of a melee hunter has in the game, in some ways yes.
But either way, the current BM has a theme built around ranged gameplay and reliance on pets, and while I do think there are quite a few things that need to be changed, as per the link in my previous reply…the actual base approach to the spec and the intended fantasy does fit it very well.
I’m hesitant to comment on what MSV should or should not have/get. Mostly because no matter what, as long as it stays focused on melee-combat, I will not touch it.
I will say this though, what they did going into BfA, with the most recent redesign, they essentially turned it into a melee-version of BM, but instead of some additional elements that would coincide with either of those main themes, they added other random things like thrown bombs or an out-of-touch crossbow.
The biggest issue is really based on how they copied over quite a few signature elements from BM, either literally, or with minor re-skins, and they did all this after having said what they did in regards to their comparison of MM and RSV from before Legion. How RSV was “too similar to MM”, which is what led to the major rework in the first place.
If that gigantic slap in the face isn’t reason alone to give us RSV back as a 4th spec, I don’t know what is…
Especially considering how RSV did not actually share any abilities with MM at the time. All they shared was the very basic theme of both being designed around the use of ranged weapons, while specifics were entirely different to one another. If that’s all that was needed as an excuse then…how can, as an example, Mages have 3 specs that all focus on casting spells? If the specifics don’t matter, if only the most superficial element of focus is what determines variation…yeah.
End of rant…
Oh I agree, if we look at our current situation, in relation to where we are in time in this expansion, I have no desires for major reworks.
Buff Beast Cleave’s AoE-potential, either it’s target cap and/or throughput per-target-hit.
Add some variable(or constant) to for example Bestial Wrath which makes it more powerful(it provides a higher increase to damage dealt). Giving us more burst-potential.
Fix some underlying problems with certain talents, such as the 35%-deficit aura tied to Animal Companion, it affecting other talents. Stomp being glitchy in terms of activasion. And more…
Well, you know where I’m at. If we look to the future and 10.0 and onwards…
#https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/beast-mastery-future-improvementspartial-rework/885639
Some testing to adjust numbers aside, give me that for BM and I’d be all good with how it plays, and what choices we have within.
Have you had any time checking my last reply to you in there btw?^^
I’ve made some small changes to the concept, particularly with a few talents, and the Mastery-effect.
2 Likes