BM Is Woefully Underpowered

BM is far too easy to play to give that much burst damage. There has to be a downside to playing BM. They don’t have the burst of MM but they got better-sustained damage in a heavy-movement fight. That would have to be removed for more burst. It would not be fair for BM to have higher burst AND sustained damage than MM AND better mobility. That’s not how it works or should work.

Why this dumb ish always being spouted? Yes MM has such a hard rotation /s.

To clarify I don’t care about burst honestly. MM can have it’s burst, BM does just fine in ST. It’s AoE for BM that needs a rework. Moreover it’s 2023, stop acting like MM is hard or takes some kinda extra skill to play. I switch back and fourth and it’s all easy.


Me too… However, that’s the way it is…

It’s what I had as far as I could compare I don’t know what my parse was and mainly AOe spec for both or one. Not sure, was trying to point out the relevance of a 4pc.

I see 44% on Terros only, but sure. It was an epeen matchup, the point was again, 4pc… Maybe more my problem then anything else in this post. Also, my first time, in a pug, screwing around with a M+ setup. (may have went ST, don’t remember it on first few attempts.

That was my only point. It’s going to take time. Playing all these years, I have had problems with X, Y, Z. On the rare occasion, I was right, nobody listened, I was heavily flamed and all I did was extrapolate the numbers out from out from play testing numbers. The point isn’t me being right, but more the I can count on one hand that I sat down, did the math and came reality that they don’t care. They would rather a class under perform, then to overperform. That’s their doctrine. I’ve watched warriors, shamans, warlocks, s priests really languish because NOBODY even addresses problems with the spec, gear, tree etc. I was convinced from Vanilla - pre WOTLK that they (devs) all played Palis and Mages right up to w.e expansion.

I don’r see that so much in M+ but of course I don’t see many BM, nor have I raided much this XP.

Derp… I think the DH has the least amount, there is a cavalcade of actions you must perform from group to group during a M+. Trust me, I’m familiar with each class…

Now it’s a mish mash of 50’s, 60’s and like 8 70s waiting on M+ to come out. Trust me, a hunter isn’t the hardest, but certainly not like a Melee who basically mongo’s from the tank position.

The entire argument about what specs are easy is entirely subjective. I’ve played most classes at a decently high level over the last couple expansions. I don’t think BM is hard by any stretch of the imagination, but micromanaging Frenzy stacks and pets is certainly more difficult than half of them. Of the Hunter specs, I find MM to be the easiest, BM second and SV slightly more difficult.

As to your other points about sustained vs burst, that is one of the issues many of us have. They gave us a burst path that would drastically reduce our sustained damage, but then undertuned those burst talents. Call of the Wild was supposed to be our big 3 minute cooldown, but it’s bugged in multiple ways and tuned so the burst doesn’t make up for the loss of sustained DPS.


You post a lot of words to essentially say “Trust me. I know.” Until you offer some actual evidence for your claims, nobody is going to give then any credence. Especially when much of what you say is in direct contradiction to things the developers have said. It seems like you’ve just created this idea in your head and are trying to support it with your own made up memories.

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I apologize for being lofty and substandard public schools these days are only serving digestible content for the meme generation. Sometimes they are just responses to somebody, sometimes I need to go in-depth to address why I think what I’m saying. You want me to offer up information and not say what you’re missing. You’re a contradiction upon yourself. Sorry, there are no one-word answers for you 0-effort question. I read and write between keys… bored…

Never said that. In fact, on quite a few occasions I’ve stressed, I don’t know how Blizzard arrives at their conclusions and to be clear, nobody is coming to me for the answers over there.

Want my opinion? I can give it to you. You don’t think BM is performing well. Blizzard hasn’t mention any changes in the upcoming patch. There… That’s your answer from the people in charge, you’re wrong. I have maintained through every response that there is very little data to be gleaned from a 2 or 3 weeks of raids and I’m guessing that their internal information is an easy assumption there won’t be a change till post 6 weeks. Don’t like that answer? Sorry, but if it’s not in this upcoming patch, then you’re definitely waiting longer then that.

Really? Show me where. The last time you had a LEAD DESIGN talk to the general public was circa Ghostcrawler. Last time I’ve seen ANYONE respond to forums was around the Shaman community and that’s because one of the people PLAYED a Shaman. It was definitely do for an overhaul.

Lol, alright man. I get it, you disagree, you think I’m wrong and you have a narrative that what, Blizzard agrees with BM is in a bad place? My opinion, don’t hold your breath. Oh, don’t take my word for it, go read the patch notes… pay attention to the only hunter news… I hope they buff you guys WAY up out of control, I’ll happily switch. You’re ridiculous.

    • Marksmanship
      • Salvo has been redesigned – Your next Multi-Shot or Volley now also applies Explosive Shot to up to 2 targets hit. 45 second cooldown, does not incur the global cooldown.
      • Double Tap has been removed and has been replaced by Tactical Reload in the Talent tree.
      • New Talent: Tactical Reload – Aimed Shot and Rapid Fire cooldown reduced by 10%.
      • Tactical Reload and Steady Focus have swapped positions in the Talent tree.
      • Calling the Shots now reduces the cooldown of Trueshot by 2.5 seconds per 50 Focus spent (was 1.5 seconds).

It seems to be a habit, but I digress.

You really are delusional. It’s the holidays. They have been essentially radio silent for over a week now. Lack of communication between Christmas and New Year’s is hardly damning. lol

Um, what? Now we’re moving the goalpost? By general public, you mean answering questions from random people in the forums? Maybe. However, they do rounds of interviews before most content patches and a lot of them before expansion releases. They have repeatedly made statements that contradict some of the stuff you have claimed earlier in this thread.

Damn. You’re really stretching. Pretty much everything I’ve said in this thread is to point out issues with the spec that I think need addressed. I never claimed that Blizzard agrees with me on that topic. This argument is about you claiming Blizzard intends for BM to be a bottom tier DPS spec because you think it’s an easy spec. Blizzard has never said that, and if you’re going to make that claim, you need to back it up with some evidence.

On the contrary, when Devs were interviewed by people like Preach and Asmongold, they specifically said they don’t balance classes that way.

  • At the beginning of Shadowlands, Asmongold jokingly asked if they were going to nerf Balance Druids, because it was far too easy to do that much damage. The Dev in the interview straight up said ease of play is a subjective metric and they try to balance the specs as close as possible.
  • When Preach interviewed a Dev, the question of hybrid tax came up and they made it clear there was no hybrid tax - followed by a statement that they strive to keep all DPS specs in the same general window, though every spec should have it’s strengths and weaknesses.

These are the messages we are getting from the actual developers of the game, yet you seem to have some obscure source from those same developers saying otherwise? You made the claim first. Let’s see those links.

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boy why dont u2 DM each other this isnt Onlyfans…geez


I can see a habit of you no extrapolating on an example. It could be a figure of speech or something I just said without implying that I’m the ALPHA and OMEGA at blizzard. Forgive me if I sometimes recall from my past since the games original launch and the responses I’ve seen and the various contradicting stance from Blizzard. Ie. Bring the player not the class, want to reduce button bloat, want to have a meaningful power upgrade without attaching it to a “thing”, and whatever else I can’t think of atm. However, if you feel so strongly that I’m leading you astray, feel free to come back in the next week or two with changes they’re making to BM. I will humbly apologize. Just know, when they don’t and you’re sitting in a dungeon or raid somewhere, that I will chuckle at the fact you will still upset that BM is what it is. You also fail to understand that I hope they make BM everything you want… cause I will be switching to it as MM has some problems on the horizon.

Feel free to come back and tell me “I told you so” in the next patch. I eagerly hope you’re right, even though in the history of this game, they have no intention on making major changes to a class this soon in.

I’m not sure, are you just retorting whitty quips that you’ve liked in other posts?

Yes, That is what I mean. You’re “maybe” wasn’t required.

Do they? People like Preach or Swifty and some of the other guys (I don’t normally care) who asked hard questions eventually got blacklisted for comments and questions they’ve asked. Heck, even Belluar who has been a critic doesn’t get to really interview Devs. They give people like Tallyesin and Evitel or Hazel a Q&A because it’s softball questions or a scripted session that doesn’t really tackle questions. IF you are known to criticize the product, they’re not going to show up on your channel to enrich you. That’s fine and fair, but don’t pretend that there is a real open ended question session addressing things.

I really can’t tell if you’re trolling or didn’t read or a combination of the two with some deep reading comprehension issues. Never have I said that. Nor do I think that it’s the case. I’ve even said, MULTIPLE times, that BM “may” need something. Maybe % to damage or ability changes or something. All I have EVER said is that it’s too early to make that assessment and based on what I have seen with my personal experience, that I haven’t seen BM that far off. I do believe BM enjoys the ability to maintain 100% movement and damage that none of the range classes enjoy. That’s it. What you are clutching your pearls over is beyond me.

Please keep in mind that those players and interviews like it didn’t really exist and of the two people you’re talking about have quit the game. Maybe Asmongold, but honestly outside of him reaping from his internet hype and looting stuff by players who gave him gold or items that he got or swindled, I haven’t taken Asmongold seriously since we argued about WOD and how bad it was going to be. If you can find it, go look… He praised WOD, and thought it would be the best expansion. Didn’t know what he was talking about and 1 or 2 months in he recanted. AS far as I know about Preach, legionish, became to complain about the rolling mechanics and the lag it created with a huge amount of dice is the last I’ve seen. Again, neither one of these people get to ask questions and as far as I know, Preach was the only one to corner Ion on some issues that wasn’t answered.

,and clearly, that was true. lol You’re a pure DPS spec, outside of a rogue, tell me what hybrid isn’t doing better? Have you not noticed this expansion there is a severe gap of players playing ranged? THE LAST TIME this game was balanced between all of the classes was Cataclysm. That may be my opinion but I’d love to hear from anyone else where it was as close to what whomever Preach interviewed to give that impression.

I know these things because I played it, live. It’s my personal experience between the 4 or 5 accounts I’ve owned and played through at various levels of play. I have little desire to substantiate anything because you already have your answer right from the DEVs in the patch notes. I just simply have 0 desire to baby walk a player that as far as I can tell, only have played this expansion your hunter. Maybe you have server trans’d or name changed, either way I don’t care what you think. My opinion doesn’t even MATTER. If you think you’re RIGHT about BM, why don’t you show me what the upcoming changes they’re making or the blue post outlying those changes. You throw 2 comments from blizzard in almost 2 decades worth of gaming an making the assertion that THIS IS THE WAY. The burden of any proof in this conversation is YOU. I said they don’t intend on doing anything with BM and somehow you want me to conjure up something that doesn’t exist.

You’re a joke man… You can clearly see my account, for all I know you’ve been a tourist for the last couple of decades. I took off for some of BFA and most of SL. Outside of that, I have no idea of why you would automatically think I’m coming up with information that is foreign to you. If you’ve been playing this long, you should know how blizzard has addressed hunters since WOTLK? They do slight titrations with % up or down. Outside of SV hunter becoming melee, the last time there a work through for ANY of the specs for hunter was back in Vanilla, and if I remember, that was about SV. I have been playing this hunter seriously since I got my leaf in MC. The people you’re talking about hadn’t hit puberty when I was playing on Warsong doing Ony kills and later ran raids with people from Gentlemans Club somewhere in the mix of Tich/Korgath. It’s a GAME and/or a hobby. …and here I give you one more, “TRUST ME”, you will not see a change because BM isn’t as bad as you profess. Sadly, and I think others pointed out they don’t expect each spec to perform the same every boss fight. There would be an OVERCORRECTION if they were to do anything. Dude… I mean wtf. You can’t be that oblivious, I’D LOVE for hunters for one of the specs to be OP, like in SL when they wanted to get SV to be played more they literally OP it. Just whatever…

You haven’t been paying attention lately. Both Asmongold and Preach had interviews with the devs recently. Preach went to Blizzard HQ for an in-depth interview. The Preach interview I mentioned previously was just before Shadowlands - the expansion that drove him away. Hell, I think there were more interviews for Dragonflight launch than any previous expansion.

Literally the first comment you left in this thread… Then you went on to claim the developers have said as much about BM, but didn’t have sources to back up your claim.

Um, Rogues aren’t hybrids. Hybrid classes are those that have healing and/or tank specs in addition to DPS. There used to be a hybrid tax, where their DPS specs were intended to do less DPS than pure DPS classes. That was removed a long time ago.

You keep saying this like it means something. I’ve been playing since day one of WoW launch. I’ve raided in top 10 in the world guilds. I’ve taken year long breaks. I’ve been around for all of this stuff as well. It doesn’t make you special.

Now you just need to get your memory checked. BM and SV both got major reworks in Legion. What we see as BM now is just multiple minor iterations of what they gave us then. While the fundamental class design hasn’t changed much since launch, there have been a lot of changes over the years.

You keep putting words in my mouth. Are you even reading my comments before responding with walls of text? When have I ever professed that BM was bad? I pointed out some poor interactions and pathing with talents and suggested increasing the duration of Beast Cleave to address some of the weaknesses we’re experiencing. Feedback is how we hopefully get things changed. Stop conflating my argument to suit your responses.

I didn’t say they were… You know what, your obstinance has won me over. You win. I can’t wait to see all the changes in the next patch. GG

I couldn’t resist… top 10? Did they do Mythic raids? OR were you just riding the bench? Cause…

Last I heard from Preach…

Can’t say that I’m a frequent viewer of his channel these days, but it’s not exactly hard to check his upload history.


Ty… quite honestly he’s so far from his point I’d have to send out Navajo trackers to figure out where he’s headed. I have probably watched less then 10 minutes from any streamers. I think Bellular cause I support his channel. Outside of that, don’t really care what is happening outside my bubble. Ty for posting it though. Wasn’t going to watch, he’s back? Poor guy.

You said “outside of a rogue, tell me what hybrid isn’t doing better?” In English, those words in that order mean you think Rogues are Hybrids. If that’s not the case, maybe write more accurately.

You are still conflating my opinion on possible fixes with some idea that if Blizzard doesn’t follow my advice, then my opinion is wrong. How do you even come to that conclusion?

I started this character when I returned in BfA. I played a Night Elf Hunter in the guild Inquisition in vanilla. The guild fell apart due to infighting after they switched from 40 man to 25 man raids in TBC. Nice try at a gotcha moment though.

Also, my first account was banned after it was hacked. At the time, Blizzard insisted the game was unhackable and therefore I must have shared my password. Obviously we know better now, but good luck getting them to overturn bans.

It’s like watching a dog with a bone. Without looking at what I said, the intent was a melee class outside of a rogue, what hybrid melee is doing subpar damage? Ret? I don’t even know… Not the point and you could infer the mistake knowing full well I don’t think a Rogue is a hybrid you knob. Regardless, I do forums when I’m usually waiting on something or before a pull. If we go to publish I’ll make sure it passes the editor’s office.

I’ve literally said, BM MAY NEEDS TO BE ADJUSTED AND THE ONLY THING I SAID WAS, WE HAVE TO WAIT TO SEE. I’ve said MULTIPLE times that IMO Maybe 6-8 weeks, who knows, what will shake out when a majority have BIS, 4pc, etc. Only blizzard will know and they’re not quick to make a correction. You then went running in 10 directions with things that don’t even relate to the original conversation.

It’s all good, I don’t care. You implied on that character and didn’t follow up that it was on another character, on another realm, far far away. That was the information you provided, all I did was look.

Been there, done that. Almost 2 decades and all I ever gotten was a cryptic response. First Rogue to 60 vanilla and epic mount. There was literally nothing to do then charge people to run through SM and such. People like me was the reason the instituted amount of dungeons you could enter. Before Silithus, before pvp, before w.e dungeon in Desolace they introduced after many of us we’re beyond it.

Now, back to what Ghorak posted…

Probably the most cancer and questions asked and answer and it addresses nothing about class balance. However, if you pay attention to that video around 16 min in, this applies to you. Also check out 27 and 50ish minutes in. The contrast of what Ion say about play the game how you want to doesn’t want to force somebody to go raid if they only want to PVP, or M+ or w.e

now, I was happy to hear from Lore that they do read forums more than I’d venture to guess. It’s the lack of communication is the issue, I suppose they have to guard themselves.

Not sure if this was meant for me, or Cognition. Either way, I didn’t post it as a basis to support any argument I was going to make, regarding the discussion you’re having with Cognition. It was simply a heads-up, as it appears that he has indeed returned to WoW.

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It wasn’t. It was information I hadn’t seen, just thought that of all the segments there were 1-3 that may be somewhat relevant. Credited your post. That was all

Apparently its not for you or youd not be complaining. Sounds like a skill issue to me.

What a smooth brain response. You responding to the right person? I hope it was a mistake because your response to what I said has zero correlation lol.

You basically just pulled the “yeah, well your ugly” move, I’m dying laughing!

BM needs help with AOE our single target is not bad. We need about a 20 % increase.

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