Because EVERY OTHER leggo is garbage. It’s BIS among garbage.
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I am sad they reduced RSF on the PTR by 5% but still its 100% less clunky to use than SFE Those who play with NO lag low latency will never understand how exponential it clunky-ness is compounded.
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You guys keep saying this is “not a nerf” when I already made it clear it was a PTR nerf, and an obviously unnecessary one since Rylak’s was doing less damage than Ember in single target situations.
So don’t come talking about “good way to be taken seriously” when you’re literally being dishonest and ignoring what was said.
No it would not. This is not a subjective opinion, it is literally NUMBERS and you can just SIM Rylak’s with this amount of damage, BMs would still be not in the middle. Not being able to check raw numbers is also not a “good way to be taken seriously”, right?
I see… You want to argue about “SIMs” because clearly you don’t know how it is done and what you’re talking about. Some people do use Rylak’s instead of ember, because they build their STATS toward this leggo. That is how and why you always SIM based on your stats.
But none of this change the fact that RAW numbers Ember still doing more damage than Ryla’ks in single target.
Anyway, people that want to debate math and SIMs are probably not “to be taken seriously” at all.
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Embers requires perfect play once the 35% goes through to even match Rylak’s on single target because sim is assuming perfect play. If you don’t get full duration double flares on every single one then Ember’s falls behind. So if the boss needs to be moved out of your tartrap early even once it’s now fallen behind Rylak’s.
So currently on my sims if I remove all legionaries and just sim a hypothetical rylak’s versus a hypothetical ember’s Rylak’s increases my damage by 201, embers by 366. This means that 20% extra crit damage is a 201dps increase. X5 that’s 105dps increase, which would bring my simmed dps up to 5769 which is about what my simmed single target dps will be after the SST nerf for MM. MM is definitely a middle of the pack spec. So yeah a 100% increased crit damage would put you solidly middle of the pack considering middle of the pack is an 8 spec array. Maybe it’s just that your gear is bad that you’re not seeing it. Like you’re comparing your sims to mythic numbers when you don’t have mythic gear.
It is 100% crit damage of YOUR PET, and only while Bestial is UP. And no, it would not put BMs in the “middle of the pack”, since BMs are dooing around 32% less damage, and this would not increase your total damage in 32% (obviously).
So the problem is not my gear, the problem is that either you can’t do math or you don’t know how to SIM. Why can’t you SIM your Rylak’s with 100% crit damage (instead of 35%) and post the log proving your point? Just do it. Let us see…
This is how I know you’re bad at math because from where BM is right now to the very tippity top they’re doing 15% less damage. We’re only 9% behind the spot we’d need to be aka about 300 damage. 100% increased crit damage for our pets would definitly move us up into the middle 8 because beast cleave is pet damage as is kill command.
As to why I don’t post up a 100% rylak’s sim, because editing all of my gem slots and enchants manually to be haste instead of crit is too much of a pain in the butt to prove someone, who can’t extrapolate data, wrong since just exporting the top gear to advanced takes me over the allowed amount of iterations. Maybe go kill heroic denny instead of trolling the forums.
Are you sure? LMAO.
Well, let us look at ST first, comparing BM top damage on Shriekwing M with the current top damage (mage).
Mage top damage is a CN person, 7.409,6 DPS.
BM top damage is a KR person, 5.595,3 DPS.
The difference here is around 30%. But that is only ST.
Now what about a cleave fight? Let us look at BM top damage on Huntsman versus the top damage (Warlock).
Warlock top damage is a KR person, 11.084,6 DPS.
BM top damage is also a KR person, 7.585,6 DPS.
Now the difference goes around 40%.
Just check warcraft logs for the data.
Can you please stop wasting my time and stop embarrassing yourself now?
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Literally comparing someone who got 9 external buffs to someone who got 1, okay kid. Not to mention that the kill time on the Mage is advantageous for the mage because it’s shortly after their CDs end where as the BM their kill finishes when their CDs are about the come up again meaning it’s a snap of their lowest possible DPS for that kill. Further more we’re talking about how the specs are performing as a whole not two individuals. Not to mention even if we were comparing individuals you’d have to convince one of the best hunters to swap because all the high end min maxers are pushing Mythic prog as MM, you’d probably be hard pressed to find a high end MM raider that’s doing BM on reclears for poops and laughs because people just want to speed through their reclears. So go ahead show how you don’t understand logs and that your cited example wasn’t even a fair comparison. I’ll wait. Mean while if you look at how we’re doing over all in raid on average we’re only 15% behind boomies who’re at the top for overall. Like I said go kill heroic denny instead of trolling.
Sure, the best way to compare classes is looking at the “average” invisible numbers you have shown so far.
“Kid”… LMAO. Funny to look at people refuted with NUMBERs to say these numbers are “invalid” due to “situations”, while not providing anything and calling names because clearly there is not a single possible argument left.
You want to talk about “average”? So why a moon Druid with 70 parses is doing the sama (or more) damage than BMs with 95 parses? 15%… LMAO. What a delusional person.
Since you’re incapable of looking at them yourself the average DPS for boomie for mythic over the course of 2 weeks is 6,147. The average for BM is 5247. If you divide 5247 by 6147 you get 0.853 meaning we’re doing a little less than 15% less damage because narrowing it down to just the like top 1% of logs which means BM is now heavily competing against people regularly getting externals when they are not regularly getting externals it puts them at 6057 average dps in the top 1% overall to Afflock’s 7420 overall divide those you get 0.816 which means we’re a little less than 19% behind. You said and I effing quote “since BMs are dooing around 32% less damage” meaning overall not in very specific circumstances as you tried to say I was doing by saying why your log comparison was invalid. You didn’t say on a particular fight comparing the top BM log with a bad kill time for BM versus the top log with a good kill time for that spec while that spec got every external buff their raid had dumped on them just so they could cheese as hard as they could, because you know that that’s not a valid comparison. Less than 15% and less than 19% are no where near 32%.
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Further more, care to explain to me how on SLG which is an aoe fight on mythic…not a single one of the public parses uses Embers? And Sire which has cleave fight segments there’s no embers there either. I mean if it’s so far ahead on single target currently and even better on AOE…why isn’t it there?
Whatever you’re replying you can just not because i’m not going to read it at this point. You’ve proven yourself wrong over and over.
I understand what you mean, but you’re wrong anyway. The best way to compare classes is to look at the higher possible parses. While you obviously do have a point on externals, even if you pick others examples and fights, BMs are going to perform even worse.
Anyway, all of this is you trying to prove me wrong that Rylak’s at 100% crit damage would not put BMs in the “middle of the pack”. Well, it would not, and you can just SIM it with this amount of crit damage, look at the numbers, and compare. LMAO.
People often disagree with me because I tend to only look at 99% or 95% parses. But comparing top 1 parses between a spec that is played thousands of times by really good players and a spec that is played by people that obviously don’t care about their performance, or that switch to that spec after getting their CE for the memes / logs is not the right way to approach it.
And according to logs at the maximum the dps difference between by a Boomie and a BM player at same skill level is 16-17%.
Believe it or not, the top 100 BMs in the world leaderboard are very good players. LMAO.
They’re so good that only 5 of them killed mythic Sire. And out of those 5 players 3 of them played MM for prog and switch to BM on reclear for parse and to meme their warriors quite likely.
BM isn’t 30-40% behind the top specs/classes. It’s about 10-12% behind when you factor in raid mechanics and Power Infusion. 25% behind if you’re not Night Fae (Wild Spirits is simply that strong).
Power Infusion: You need to go through those parses and remove or offset all the players that received Power Infusion during that fight. It’s an external buff and not an indicator of where a spec truly sits on the ladder. None of those serious raid guilds are giving Power Infusion to BM Hunters, because of raid mechanics.
Raid Mechanics: Everything about Shadowlands is burst-centric. Raiding, Mythic+, PvP… It all nearly requires burst to push to higher levels. Classes with the best burst window are meta now in all of those areas. BM is decent consistent damage, but falls way behind on burst.
Changing Rylakstalker’s from 20% to 35% is going to be about a 1.5% dps increase. That is obviously not enough to close the 10-12% gap and it doesn’t even touch on the lack of burst.
If I had to guess at why Blizzard won’t do anything more substantial, I’d have to say it has something to do with near perfect sims with BM. I’m sitting at 219 item level and I do decent DPS. If I get lucky with Barbed Shot procs and can keep three stacks of frenzy up for an entire boss fight, I’m right there at the top of the meters with the Boomkins and Warlocks. That doesn’t happen often though, which is why we see such huge disparities in logs. I think Blizzard knows if they buff us now, we will become crazy OP when gear allows us to have 40% or higher in every secondary stat.
That being said, the only way to fix BM right now is by shifting things around to give us a better burst window. Kill Command is our “big hitter”, but barely does more damage than Cobra Shot. Aspect of the Wild is arguably one of the weakest cooldowns in the game and needs a rework.
Side Note: The buff to Spitting Cobra is a huge surprise. The issue with that talent wasn’t about the talent itself. It was about the bug in Animal Companion that decreases pet damage by 35% in exchange for having a second pet. That 35% penalty applies to ALL pets, including Spitting Cobra. Since everyone takes Animal Companion, there is no point in taking Spitting Cobra. Animal Companion has to be a contender for the longest running bugged talent in the game. Blizzard hasn’t even mentioned that they’re aware of the issue.
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LOL I saw that blizzards solution to fixing BM hunter dps was by buffing Spitting Cobra ? Who thinks this stuff up? thats like me making a 500 HP Pinto so more people will drive it. Use a base spell everyone wants and not some off the wall spell we will have to retool everything for to even see if its better! come on! Nothing would have to be fixed if you just leave it alone.
Bliz making all their money in new business plan nit subs. By making the PvP easier to get them PvE and making it rated locked, carries are being payed for left and right, which in turn means WoW tokens are being purchased left and right.
Would be curious to see how the WoW token revenue has changed since BfA.
You guys like to believe that BM numbers are low because few players play the spec. The reality is that few player play the spec because BM numbers can’t go higher.
But I can understand your confusion, happens a lot.
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I hope they buff the other talents on that tier so that Animal Companion isn’t the “best” option. If they were all within 1 or 2% of each other that would be awesome. I think it’s more fun having a single, more powerful pet.
Killer Instinct should just be a flat damage increase to Kill Command and Beast Cleave, rather than being an execute. By default that just makes AC the better option and Dire Beast is well… Dire Beast.
So rework KI and buff DB and it’d be golden.