It seems like BM (and hunter in general still need some changes for pve).
What about improved AoE?
Improved burst dmg windows?
Kill command again affects beast cleave?
Maybe more stings or poisons for aoe?
What do others feel is missing from hunters in 9.1? They just seem to perform poorly in pve right now relative to other classes… especially with more than 1 target.
I think at this point your only choice is to go MM.
They dont perform badly in pve right now, bad players perform badly. Good players are going to dominate the meters. I dont see anything wrong with BM atm, my burst and aoe is lower than MM but higher than other dps classes, my single target however is often beating everyone including MM. Single target is our thing, we shouldnt need to be the best at everything.
Bro I randomly was looking at your best The Nine fight, you had an over 6 minute fight with only 3 casts of Wild spirits, my best is a just over 4 minute fight with the same 3 casts of wild spirits. You should have 4 casts at the time your fight takes. Your dps suffers tremendously because of things like this. At the 4 minute mark you didnt use the 3rd cast, you waited until about 4:30, that 30 seconds put you back far enough that you couldnt get a 4th cast of your best damaging ability and burst window. Im just saying bro, you can easily be pumping as BM at your ilv, but Ive seen you post many times saying we need a buff and we should go MM to compete lol, how about you take your spec seriously and do the research needed to learn how to maximise your spec? You obviously like BM so why not put in the effort and kick some butt?
Take a look at the rest of my raid for the answers you seek.
Anyway, I’m fine with BM. I’d never give back all this mobility.
I dont know what you mean, what am I looking for?
They gave us a legendary to boost wild spirts.
They are about 15-20% behind Boomkin on ST.
Warcraft logs > Heroic Guardians of the First ones >
Top boomies are doing 11-12k parses while top hunters are barely touching 10k.
We need at least a 10% aura buff and more for AOE to be competitive
So lets cleanse all the salt and toxicity here and get back to the topic.
I think one of the first changes I would like to see Blizzard make is with Animal Companion. Make it baseline or remove it. It is an awful talent that doesn’t fallow the design philosophy that automated passive talents that don’t change how you play should be less effective then active spells or passives that impact your ability priority in some situations. BMs first talent row sets the ton for its talent tree in how backwards it is.
I am going to fallow that by talking a bit more about BMs talents specifically those that impact your rotation. So next up we have the lv 25 row. Scent of Blood is more or less an automatic 12% CD reduction for Bestial Wrath and it lets you get to 3 stacks of frenzy quicker then ether option. One with the Pack will require a ton of crit (we are talking 9.2 mythic ilv or 9.3) for it to push your average BW CD lower then Scent of Blood. Scent of blood also provides security due to it leaving you with an extra charge. Chimaera Shot is laughable it dose barely as much damage as a Cobra Shot and gives you 20 focus. This talent dose nothing for Bestial Wrath which was formerly the reason why One with the Pack was taken and is now why Scent of Blood is taken. Honestly The spell needs to be completely changed to contribute to Bestial Wrath or replaced with something else that impacts our damage flow.
Next lv 35. These are also perthitic. Thrill of the Hunt is automated as long as you are playing the base version of the spec correctly. Spitting Cobra has issues with how it interacts with Animal Companion but also requires you to change your ability priority and actively play around it so why is it worse then Thrill of the Hunt? A Murder of Crows just dose abysmal damage for an active CD that is on GCD and costs focus. Even Bestial Wrath can’t save its awful damage. Thrill of the Hunt is 9% more Crit Strike. which isn’t reduced by the diminishing returns introduced in Shadowlands. That is far more valuable then the garbage they put along side it. Thrill of the Hunt needs the same treatment as Animal Companion. Make it baseline or remove it.
I will try to keep lv 45 brief. Barrage needs to be something that is channeled on a targeted and hits near by targets it also needs to not cost focus and trigger an extended Beast Cleave that maybe even dose more damage. Better yet remove Barrage and add a toggle spell that causes your pet to thrash wildly doing aoe damage and draining the pets focus every second or two while it is active. Stampede needs to be changed to its original incarnation of summoning 5 pets to attack a target and have them kill command and beast cleave.
Lv 50 is ok but still not great. Aspect of the Beast provides good damage and is the only one to provide utility in addition to that. Killer Cobra is just better then Bloodshed in most regards because it saves your focus during your burst. Bloodshed is a nice CD for PVP but I think having it hit up to 2 nearby targets and applying its bleed for less damage would sell it for stacked cleave situations. If Aspect of the Beast is going to keep be automated I think it should lose the utility of buffing your passives and have that be moved to one of the talent rows designated for utility.
Despite talents being a major issue I think BM also needs a good amount of attention in terms of its base spells and passives. We need more aoe from something. I agree with most people that I think Blizzard need to do something with Beast Cleave. Personally I think they should go one of two ways. On idea I like its having Beast Cleave be a buff that simply causes your next Kill Command to hit several nearby targets. The other is in the vain of the trash talent I talked about as a replacement for Barrage. Have a toggle spell that sends your pet in to a frenzy damaging all nearby by enemies with every attack but drains your PETS focus each time they attack. At absolute minimum Beast Cleave needs some change to make it so kill command doesn’t interfere with beast cleave.
On to topic of performance doesn’t listen to the masses BM is doing fine relative to the current level of difficulty in all PVE. Some specs are doing better or provide a wider range of utility in Sanctum but that doesn’t mean we are struggling over all. AOE is definitely an issue with the fact that our best aoe comes from Night Fae with or without there legendary, Necrolord with there legendary, or Kyrian with the legendary Bow from Sylvanas. The majority of our stand out aoe comes from borrowed power which as we all know is an imminent problem.
Core Abilities
Major Cooldown
Mastery Bonus
Passive Effects
Utility & Defensives (Class-wide)
This section also includes some changes to talents that focus on utility. See the full concept below for specifics.
Talents
Talents
– Level 15 –
[Killer Instinct] - Kill Command deals 45% increased damage against enemies below 35% health.
Kill Command deals an additional 10% damage against bleeding targets.
[Bloodshed] - 50 yd range - Instant - 1 min cooldown
Command your pet(s) to tear into your target, causing your target to bleed for X damage over 18 sec, and increase all damage taken from your pet(s) by 15% for 18 sec.
[Dire Beast] - (Replaces Barbed Shot) - Instant - 12 sec recharge - 2 Charges
Summons a powerful wild beast that attacks the target for 8 sec.Generates 20 Focus over 8 sec.
– Level 25 –
[Scent of Blood] - Activating Bestial Wrath grants 2 charges of Barbed Shot/Dire Beast.
[One with the Pack] - Wild Call has a 20% increased chance to reset the cooldown of Barbed Shot/Dire Beast.
Using Barbed Shot/Dire Beast increases your Haste by 5% for 12 sec.
[Feeding Frenzy] - Damage dealt by Barbed Shot increased by X%. When the periodic damage effect applied by Barbed Shot is refreshed, the remaining damage will be added to the new effect, and it now lasts for a total of 9 sec.
In addition, Frenzy’s duration is also increased to 9 seconds.
- Dire Frenzy(Requires talent: Dire Beast)
Each time a Dire Beast is called, the damage dealt by your main pet(s) is increased by 1%.
When you activate Bestial Wrath, this consumes all stacks of Dire Frenzy and increases the initial damage dealt by Bestial Wrath by 30% for each stack that is consumed.
– Level 30 –
[Trailblazer] - [Natural Mending]
[Bestial Dicipline] - While your pet is active, you and your pet(s) regenerate X% of total health every 3 sec. Healing done to you and your pet(s) is increased by X%.
Damage taken by your pet(s) is reduced by 15%
– Level 35 --
[Spitting Cobra] - Bestial Wrath also summons a Spitting Cobra to aid you in combat for 15 sec. Each Cobra Shot used during Bestial Wrath extends the remaining duration of the Spitting Cobra by 1 sec.
[Thrill of the Hunt] - Barbed Shot/Dire Beast reduces the remaining cooldown of Bestial Wrath by an additional 4 sec.
Barbed Shot/Dire Beast increases your critical strike chance by 5% for 12 seconds.
[Birds of Prey] - Kill Command extends the remaining duration of A Murder of Crows by 2 sec.
Damage of A Murder of Crows is increased by X%.
– Level 40 –
[Born to be Wild] - [Binding Shot]
[Adaption] - (Replaces Posthaste) Getting hit with an incapacitating effect(Stun/Fear), reduces the remaining cooldown of your Aspect of the Turtle by 30%. This effect has an internal cooldown of X sec.
Aspect of the Turtle is now usable when incapacitated.
When rooted or slowed, the remaining cooldown of Aspect of the Cheetah is reduced by 15 seconds. Aspect of the Cheetah frees you from movement impairing effects and you cannot be slowed below 100% movement speed while it’s active.
– Level 45 –
[Stomp] - When you cast Barbed Shot/Dire Beast, your pet stomps the ground, dealing X Physical damage to all nearby enemies.
[Chimaera Shot] - Instant cast - 15 sec cooldown
A two-headed shot that hits your primary target and another nearby target, dealing X Nature damage to one and X Frost damage to the other.Generates 10 Focus for each target hit.
[Talon Frenzy] - While Beast Cleave is active, A Murder of Crows affects up to 8 enemies near the primary target.
– Level 50 –
[Aspect of the Beast] - Increases the damage and healing of your pet’s abilities by 30%.
Increases the effectiveness of your pet’s Predator’s Thirst, Endurance Training, and Pathfinding passives by 50%.
[Stampede] - Instant cast - 30 sec duration - 2 min cooldown
Summons 5 of your stabled pets to fight for you for 30 sec. These pets deal X% of normal damage and obey your Kill Command.Pets summoned by Stampede heal themselves for 200% of the damage they deal.
[Unleashed Fury] - Instant cast - 20 sec cooldown
Sends your pet into a rage, causing it to deal X Physical damage to the target in a flurry of 5 attacks. Damage dealt is increased by X% for every stack of Frenzy the pet currently has.When this ability is used, your pet will let out a savage roar, increasing your haste by 10% for 12 sec.
- Bestial Fury(Requires talent: Dire Beast)
Damage dealt by Dire Beasts during Bestial Wrath is increased by another X%.
Any Dire Beasts called during Bestial Wrath will have their duration increased by an additonal X sec. This also applies to Dire Beasts who have already been called to fight when Bestial Wrath is activated. Attacks made by Dire Beasts will now also benefit from Beast Cleave, if activated.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Biggest issue is lack of choice in talents.
Also; Let Camouflage Cooldown whilst active - like it used to be.
This was a totally unnecessary change implemented.
Why complicate things, 'KC" already has cd reduction that comes from “CS”. My opinion is to just make “Beast Cleave” a standalone AOE spell that we need anyway, to be a filler for our nonexistent AOE rotation and then just have “Multi-Shot” reduce #'s “Beast Cleave” CD.
BW is fine no focus reduction required on a button with 2min cd.
AGREED.
Awesome idea!! I love it.
Agreed.
With all that said just throwing it out there, Hunter is quite a fantasy driven class hell even real life. It shouldn’t take to much brain power to come up with something NEW and engaging keep all the hunter favorites make them baseline and be creative come up with something different. Instead of always reworking the same thing over and over keep what works use that as a foundation to build upon with the Hunter fantasy in mind and a guide.
Complicate? Hmm…
Well, first off, as you’ve noticed, I intend for Kill Command to also benefit from Beast Cleave, by being able to hit multiple enemies for slightly reduced damage.
The suggestion to have a Focus cost-reduction for KC via Multi-Shot will further allow you to keep up with much of your priority-target rotation, incl Cobra Shot, and by extension allowing you to get more casts of Kill Command out during AoE-periods.
As it currently stands, if you keep on casting a lot of Cobra Shots while also casting Multi-Shot, you will soon run out of Focus to reliably get casts of Kill Command off when it comes off CD.
Your suggestion to make Beast Cleave into a stand-alone ability would make Multi-Shot completely redundant and thus, wouldn’t achieve much at all but us getting 1 ability instead of the other. Ofc they would probably work differently from one another.
Also, I don’t know if you’ve noticed but since I suggested to include an optional talent for making A Murder of Crows into a burst-AoE type of ability, and since there’s a talent suggestion for KC to extend the duration of AMoC, then more KC = more burst AoE, not just from KC but from AMoC as well.
Not entirely sure what you mean here.
The old Legion-lego that was Roar of the Seven Lions reduced the Focus cost of all other abilities by 15% while Bestial Wrath was active.
I wanted to include, maybe not the full 15%, but at least part of that beneficial effect to make up for the fact that Aspect of the Wild would no longer be a thing.
Aspect of the Wild
100 yd range
Instant | 2 min cooldown
Requires Hunter (Beast Mastery) | Requires level 38Grants you and your pet 5 Focus per sec and 10% increased critical strike chance for 20 sec.
If you check what AotW actually does, I think it makes more sense as to why I would want to include a Focus cost-reduction in the effects provided by BW.
I like a lot of these suggestions.
Thoughts on this one
Kill Shot now usable on mobs >25% up from >20% ? 10 Seconds seems like it still keeps that in check.
overall they preform fairly poorly in aoe, at least in m+ i agree they dont need to be changed cause a good bm hunter will dominate the charts, but i main bm so i would always appreciate a buff
Make Kill Command Beast Cleave and buff mastery. A mastery tweak would buff all of the under powered pet talents in one go.
Really though BM has an underlying issue of being kind of boring. Nothing you do feels impactful on its own. There are no buttons you specifically look forward to pressing. On paladin I think “sweet, wings time!”, pop Avenging Wrath, and feel like a god for the next 20 seconds. Meanwhile as BM I hit BW and/or AotW and feel nothing. It’s just another button.
<3
Basically when it comes to raids, in any single-target scenario, you would on average get 1, maybe 2, additional uses of Kill Shot over the course of the fight, if you were change it from 20% up to 25%.
It’s not nothing ofc, but in terms of PvE, it most certainly wouldn’t be too much of an increase.
Any change to Kill Shot though, I’d argue it should be done on a class-wide basis.
Just wish theyd allow us more baseline aoe…like really just give us stampede or murder of crows baseline…they are flavor abilities fpr a BEAST MASTER and yet they are so bad they are never used.
At least demo locks passivly summon tons of imps and actually feel to be master of summoning demons.
All we got are 2 pets and no real good animal summoning abilities. Like come on blizz there is so much potential yet hunters are still passivly given insufficient buffs. Id hate to see how wed be doing atm had we not gotten those blanket buffs…though feels luke we are the new WW and desperately need more.