You’ll get a belf shaman before you’ll get a druid.
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High Botanist alone is justification enough for BE Druids.
Nature magic, shapeshifting into druidic forms, concern for his delicate species? Yes, this is worthy of one who would guard the dream.
The same cane be said for Sir Zeliek for Undead Paladins. It’s been represented in universe meaning it’s possible. If it’s possible for an NPC to do it, there’s nothing saying those same conditions can’t be met for a player character.
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I really don’t care anymore about race/class combos but just for conversation sake, this is wrong:
Botanist are not druids and they don’t have the same morals/priorities as one. Freywinn cares about his “delicate specimens” as much as a scientist cares about a lab rat. He just doesn’t want to repeat the experiments. WoW’s Botanist also use arcane magic to warp and mutate nature, not help it. They made the forest around Silvermoon a permanent spring so it would be “pretty.” That’s not what someone does that cares about the balance of nature. The end boss of Botanica is a treeant that they drove mad. That is also very anti-druid.
So no, they don’t justify squat.
All undead paladins in the game are members of the Scourge, and they’re not voluntary members. They were raised by powerful necromancers that force them to deal with the pain of Light and necromancy mixing. No Forsaken would choose to endure what Sir Z and the Risen have to endure.
Again, I don’t care if we get belf druids and undead paladins but it will be because Blizzard also doesn’t care anymore, not because of the above examples. They’ll probably just say belves learned from tauren and Calia and some Light-wielding friends created more Lightbound undead like herself.
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Sure, but mechagnome Druids is where I draw the line
I’m waiting for belf shammies more than anything else.
Eh, no, it’s right. Here’s some counterarguments I have:
You know who also don’t have the same morals/priorities as a druid? Flame Druids, yet we call them druids nonetheless. I think keeping a forest in perpetual spring to make it ‘pretty’ or otherwise probably shows more care than reducing all nature to ash, don’t you? Considering the starting quests acknowledge the effect burning crystals had on the environment and what must be done to maintain an equilibrium shows at least some care for the nature of the land they inhabit.
This is all to say that morality and the ethos for certain races has no bearings on whether or not certain races have the capacity to learn that classes spells. Even mobs near Freywinn can cast spells that deal nature damage, and Freywinn himself, has ‘Nature’s Will’ which turns him into a tree form to cast an iconic druidic spell.
The very existence of the Arcan’dor shows that there can be an intermingling of arcane and nature magic.
We may have to agree to disagree on this one, because that sounds like quite the reach to say that not a single undead would still have faith in the light and try to learn paladin arts. Those risen may be reticent to use the Light, but there are undead who use the light and use so willingly. Alonsus Faol was the Archbishop of the Light in life, and in death continues to be a light user. I’m sure there’s other examples out there, but Faol shows that that faith in the light can persist even in undeath. Regardless if he was compelled or not, Zeliek’s existence shows that an undead paladin, while perhaps at a cost of physical pain, CAN exist.
Just because we have many undead priests who choose shadow over light does not mean that undead light users wouldn’t consider it.
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That’s because they were druids before they turned their back on traditional teachings and went to Ragnaros. They kept some of their druid abilities.
Botantist were never druids.
Sure if you want to but like I said: all undead paladins are Scourge. There are no undead paladins with freewill.
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My point being is that there’s multiple avenues to being considered a class. Obviously they don’t need to care about the balance of nature to have access to the classes abilities, so it shouldn’t even be a factor.
And yet we have undead, with free will, no longer scourge, who can use the light just fine. And it just so happens that one of the most notable undead priests happens to have been one of the Archbishops of the Holy Light. Being a paladin doesn’t absolutely destroy you as an undead, because again, Zeliek. Scourge or not, he had the capabilities of a paladin.
You have the existence of an undead priest who was a bastion of the Holy Light with free will.
You have an undead paladin whom, despite being undead, still was a paladin.
The fact that both of these exist means that the potential for a free-will, undead paladin can exist in WoW.
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Meh, since the player isn’t really part of the lore beyond “Champion of Azeroth” we have a couple of Light-wielding undead. Faol is the only one that comes to mind. The rest are in the Cult of Forgotten Shadow.
Never said it did.
I wasn’t saying there couldn’t be undead paladins, I said that Botanist and Sir Z doesn’t justify anything because they’re both really bad examples.
Botanist are mages that decided to experiment on plants. Sir Z was a paladin that was raised then forced into service by one of the most powerful necromancers on Azeroth.
My point is if we do get belf druids and undead paladins, it won’t be because of the above. The tauren druid standing in Silvermoon will become the leader of The Order of the Barbie Druid and Calia will get some help to raise more Lightforged undead.
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They don’t need to be a part of the lore behind the Champion of Azeroth, the game world just needs to have them to say ‘Hey, these exist’, and that’s carte blanche enough for others to follow in their footsteps to become like them.
I’ll give you that one. I’ve seen people in forums and in game say undead paladins can’t exist because there’s some magical rule that the light within paladins is so much different from how a priest uses them that it would destroy them from within, and I’ve not once seen an example of this in game or in text. So my bad there on assuming you thought the same - just seen a lot of people make a fanon claim say its canon.
This is probably where we’ll hit an impasse, but High Botanist elves using druid and nature magic just spells it out to me that the only thing from keeping them from being druids is semantics. Their cultures may have had different approaches to what they do with nature, but every druid class available seems to draw their power from difference sources and have different goals when it comes to how they play in nature’s grand scheme.
People say we can’t have X-class with Y-race often, so when I hear people say Zeliek is a bad example of undead paladins ever being a thing or making sense, I have to ARDENTLY disagree, because a major boss WAS one.
Do I think Lightforged Undead would make more sense to have be the explanaition for paladins? Sure. It’s a venue that can be explored. But like you said, Zeliek was a slain paladin brought back to life and made to serve. Who’s to say that another paladin couldn’t be raised and done the same?
They’re characters in the game who use magic based on other classes we currently don’t have access to. In terms of what the world is telling me, it seems to be that’s enough to say that these things could be possible.
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But it will happen. It just means it’s going to take a while.
I don’t think it takes that much to justify Blood Elf Druids, specially if you use a flexible concept.
Blood Elves might not be “feral nelves living under trees in the middle of the forest”, but if you look at their areas, there’s no lack of concern for nature. Their ways seem more “regal”.
Can’t forget that Sin’dorei are Kaldorei descendants. Moon symbols can be found in many places. Belves still wield glaives. So, it’s still within their culture.
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(I will link this till the end of time)
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How about we don’t since all classes for all races minus Evoker is coming so whether people like you like it or not we are going to get Druids and Shamans for Blood Elves.
I mean really I don’t even play anything outside of Warlocks and even I support Blood Elf Druids and Shamans as well as stuff like Undead Paladin, Void Elf Paladin, Tauren Demon Hunter, Vulpera Druid, etc.
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i think after lightforged draenei warlocks we’re past justification for race locks. The only reason right now is monetary with having to make new models
Oh I never said anything about not understanding that that kind of thing is coming. I too think its eventually gonna happen, all classes all race, etc…But not yet.
It’s just about once a week we have a elf post on here about wanting something or another.
You give those elves an inch, and they take a mile. Gnomes ain’t get sheet yet elves cry out here constantly, especially when another race gets something.
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It can, since they developed forms for other races. It will just take a while.
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How I see it people ask for what they want so go make Gnome thread or Gnome threads, see if they get attention or not.
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You’re missing my point. Gnomes don’t need anything. We don’t demand anything. We don’t want anything. We aren’t self entitled like the elves are of this game.
I personally hope this happens and the druid forms are mech baby bears, kittens, fawns and saplings.
No one is saying we are owed anything. People are making suggestions. Time to calm down the rhetoric. It’s weird to keep acting like it’s an elf thing since people ask for things for other races all the time. And everyone posting is a human, who usually plays multiple races.
I have a couple Gnomes. I’d like things for them too.
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