You still don’t get it. My point is not that nothing is good, just saying there are more bad than good.
Frost is still not viable in 2s, and what about those that are not necrolord? Hmm?
Not meta in M+ (like fire mage meta) as far as I know, in raid it’s certainly not top anymore.
Of course it’s a big deal. Have you tanked a raid boss with prot paladin or VDH? In my guild raid my co-tank does twice my dps. I repeat, TWICE. If you don’t see that as a problem I don’t know what other logic to throw at you.
In raiding DK’s bring AMZ, that it’s self buys them a spot. It could be blood or it could be unholy, both are viable.
In PVP Frost is considered a top class, albeit not for the reasons I would prefer, but it is a viable choice.
That’s how the cards have fallen this go around. Max from Complexity Limit has a great video talking about tanks right now. You can you tube it. I would like a damage buff though, or honestly a VDH damage nerf and Prot Pally damage nerf.
Again, not saying there aren’t good things, but I am saying there are more bad things to fix. I know which video you are talking about, I watched it.
You cannot say because Frost is good with one legendary, one covenant, and one, maybe two specific comps, that there is nothing wrong with it. You also can’t say because DK has a spot in raid because of AMZ (and I don’t believe this to be “required”, I am pretty sure for all the mythic raid bosses we’ve cleared none of them really requires AMZ) there is nothing to be fixed in raid. I don’t dispute that BDK is defensive in raid, but you can’t be trading defensiveness for twice of the DPS. That, is a problem.
Let me give the context of my experience, and how i feel BDK is.
currently ilvl221, i have 3 leggos i swap between depending on affixes.
Those leggos are
Deaths Certainty(When i need to do ST DPS/or PvP)
Phearomones(When i have to tank strong trash weeks)
Super Strain(When the trash is so strong, that im going to be kiting most of the time).
I have done every dungeon on M0.
I am an efficient solo player, so i decided to target the Dungeon i felt was the most efficiant. I have over 70 clears of HoA 10-14.
I could EASILY go to 19, i just dont because i dont see the point.
I dont bother with CN because there is only one item from the whole raid that is useful to Blood.
i casually grinded RBGs to 1800 for the Haste+vers itemization.
Yall seem to be telling people theyre using the wrong legendary or the wrong stats, and honestly none of you know what youre talking about.
Bloods stat priority, and BiS leggo changes on a week to week basis depending affixes, team comp, and what content youre doing.
Y’all also seem to be under the delusion that Blood cant kite, even though one of its biggest strengths is its ability to kite. Like…do you even BDK? If youre struggling kiting let me offer some advice.
Use the Deaths Advance conduit.
Use a movespeed gem.
Use a movespeed enchant.
Ideally be a Ztroll and use the 5% movespeed Loa.
Cherish items with +speed.
You should have no issues pulling off MDI pulls and running literal circles around 20mobs in your DnD snare.
While some of our builds are weak in regards to DPS, we also have builds that top the tank charts. It just depends on what build youre going with at that point in time.
Example- my Phearomones build does about 1.8k DPS ST, but drastically increases my ability to face tank trash.
My Deaths Certainty build pulls a bear minimum of 3.3k DPS ST, and is still relatively good for trash. Just not as durable.
Moving forward into the next xpac, Bonestorm should become baseline and absorb Swarming Mist into it.
Abomination Limb should replace Gorefiends Grasp.
And Transfusion should replace Bonestorm on the Talent tree.
Also that brings me to another point.
ALOT of BDKs are playing Venthyr, because beta testers and theory crafters determined it was the best option.
Its not.
Go Necrolord. Serrated Spaulders alone is equally as valuable as Swarming Mist.
Honestly, half of you guys sound like you WANT Blood to be bad, inorder to justify your poor performance as an individual.
Blood is VERY strong as a raid tank.
It’s VERY strong as a M+ tank.
The reason VDH dominates the pro scene isn’t because they’re a better tank. Its Because they have a debuff that amplifies the S tier DPS classes.
And this is typical response from people who refuse to discuss issues at hands but instead preferring name calling instead.
How about commenting on some of the weakness pointed out and discuss why or why not it’s an issue? How about having an actual discussion instead of “me good u suck” attitude?
I am not the best BDK, but at least I’ve cleared more than half of mythic CN and did some medium keys. I don’t need to justify for anything, least of all my poor performance.
Side node, the magic debuff is not why VDH is the best M+ tank.
I love how you initally started your entire thing with
“I casuually ground my pvp rating up to 1800 to get our BiS gear.”
and you don’t see the problem there at all. We shouldn’t be forced to gain arena rating to be viable tanks. /endtopic
Your anecdotal evidence of how you play is not the baseline that nearly every DK out there, and almost all groups out there feel.
For raid bosses, DK isn’t terrible because the bulk of CN isn’t forcing the tanks to move a crazy amount, but our damage is still quite low ST.
For M+, we can’t run in, pop 2 abilities and deal 6k damage like a DH or other tanks can with a few swipes. We have around 5-6 steps in order to get agro going, and even then, we aren’t going to hold as long as a different class can so we have to run back and regain agro at times, causing more problems.
Are there low DPS Blood builds? Mhmm.
Are there squishier ones?
Mhmm.
The main difference between us and other tanks right now, seems to be that we have an abundance of builds we swap between inorder to match the content. Whereas mostly everyone else just has a generalist “this is always the best” type of option.
Go Deaths Certainty+Sanguination for 2hours and i promise you you’ll out DPS every tank you’ve ever seen.
At the cost of Fallen Crusader/or SSG survivability.
I agree Bloods entire BiS list shouldn’t be coming from PvP. But, it is. So i did what i had to do.
I agree Blood is alot harder to play than every other tank. By a considerably large margin, with little or possibly even no benefit to the higher difficulty. But, it’s not like being harder than other tanks = hard. It’s still pretty darn tootin easy. Atleast from the perspective of a long time player.
No I don’t bother with CN.
IF i do, it will only be Stone Generals, since the trinket they drop is literally the only piece of loot from CN that a BDK would use.(Good job Blizzard). But, that doesn’t mean im uneducated relative to CN.
But regardless. My ST DPS ranges between 3.3k-4.4k. Depending on a handful of variables.(let’s just say 4k)
Which is competitive with pro level tanks, is it not?
This game is not balanced for 2s. So this is a non-argument. There are plenty of specs that are bad in 2s. Again, dks have access to the best comps in the game and synergize really well with other class in the game.
Again, it was played in the last MDI. If it wasn’t good, no one would be playing it
Prot is squishy. Do you want to be squishy and do a lot of damage? Roll a dps chracter. No one is going to kick you cuz your dps is under a broken vdh. You are a tank and your priority is staying alive. DPS take care of doing damage
The dps does matter.
But people need to understand they have to build for the damage.
I don’t think Deaths Certainty+Sanguination appears on most BDKs radars because there’s essentially no defensive benefit to it. It’s just a raw damage boost that may or may not even work(because deaths certainty is a unholy Lego), and who even knows how much damage runeforge of Sanguination adds, who wants to lose fallen crusader to a vague gamble?
Well, deaths certainty does work as Blood. And runeforge of Sanguination increases Death Strike damage by 1% for every 1% health the target is missing. Up to +99% damage.
Surprise! You do DPS!
And oh man, when you learn to line your DRW up with your 18% soulbind crit, during execute phases. Yikes big damage.
If you haven’t bothered, how do you know it’s enough? How do you know what uptime you would have, versus tank swap, versus how much emphasis to put on damage versus sustainability?
On warcraft logs highest BDK DPS in general is about 3K. Highest DPS for something let’s say prot paladin is about 5K. That makes BDK just about 60% of prot paladin’s DPS. Which is quite similar to what I personally experience.
Fair point. Still a problem, is it not? And even in 3s you need specific comp, plus specific legendary, plus specific PvP talent, plus specific covenant. I’d still say there are plenty of problems there.
I didn’t say it’s not good, I said it’s not fire mage type of meta in M+, and it’s not top in raid.
Prot is not squishy until it is. What I mean by that is in raid it’s more than capable of surviving AND do twice of BDK’s DPS. How is that not a problem? You even said it yourself, broken VDH. I agree, it’s a problem, what are we even arguing about?
If you don’t see how BDK’s lack of DPS is a problem please check warcraft logs and read my comments above. Otherwise, I don’t know what other logic to throw at you.