Yea! They should start with titans grip! Remove the 10% damage nerf
Still waiting on that definition you’re eager to teach me about.
Um, well, yes they can. Especially when no one else really needs a buff. The only spec that could use a minor adjustment is Shadow Priest. But even then, it’s not necessary. Because every raid will always have Spriest for its utility.
None of the changes made are some crazy world-altering experiences.
If yall are so mad that your spec is no topping meters, well, clearly you’re not playing this game for the sake of enjoyment, but to fulfill some sort of flexing need. Go parse 100. Be the best you can.
I got a hando parse on my Rdru on 1 boss once. Feels good. I don’t need to be meta Hpala/Disc to solo heal Razorscale or dual heal Hodir HM on 25.
Yes, I’m playing a C-tier heal spec. The worst healing class in the game. You don’t see me complaining. Because I actually enjoy playing it, regardless of meta.
Either way, i’m out. Yall can keep crying. PEACE 
P.S>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec7w05Qh1Fk&t=295s
Get some help pls.
Did you convert from Paladin to Rogue? 
Something that is a bit frustrating is how some people are mad at these changes because of how “balanced” OG wrath was. They are forgetting that OG wrath had balance changes almost every patch. Classes were changed and buffed/nerfed. Players weren’t fully utilizing interactions (snapshots and the like). I am guessing if we had data (I can’t find it) from OG wrath, we’d be doing double or triple the damage of our OG counter parts.
I think I remember during naxx how Blood DK was broken because of dancing rune weapon. Now it’s not even used. Unholy was a 2h spec in OG. Now it’s DW morb spec. Ret was a good dps across every raid. Now it was barely above Arms dps until the buff. Titans grip was a hit penalty until 3.1. There are probably more balance changes I missed but the game was changing constantly during that time.
If you look at the patch notes for OG wrath, there were class changes in al.ost every patch that would change up the meta for the most part. If somebody has data on dps numbers back in the day for each tier, that would be great to see if my memory is correct or if I was completely wrong since I can only find forum posts.
So since we’ll soon be in the exact patch of the expansion the 3.4.3 client is based on, maybe it’s time to get rid of all the outlier buffs then.
I still think my overall point is that Blizzard needs to communicate whether they are balancing the game or whether they aren’t. On Retail, you know things will shift. In Classic, we were originally under the impression that things would not (absent dire circumstances), but now Blizzard has implemented so many changes that it’s almost hard to keep up. Things like: Feral Buffs, Ret Buffs, Hunter Explosive Trap Launcher, Ignite/Deep Wound Munching, Demo Pack Snap Shotting, Raid CD Reset, Fire Ele Reset, Army of the Dead Reset, Shattering Throw Glyph, Feint Weave (Nerf).
Now, some of these changes were just straight buffs (i.e. Feral/Rets), but a lot of them (to give the best examples, Shattering Throw Glyph and Demo Pact) didn’t increase the potential damage these classes could do (because optimal damage rotations just had them not press them); however, in an overall raid scenario, they did, are, and will result in a buff because players are expected and often asked to use them. As in, Warriors who used Shattering Throw (as they should be) gained damage, and all casters gained some dps because the average Demo Lock is going to have a better spell damage Snap Shot (since it’s easier to do now). The same is for Hunter Explosive Trap. While that addition likely only marginally increased their perfect damage rotation, I believe the impact its going to have for the average player (and thus, overall actual raid damage) is going to be monumental given the mobility freedom they haven’t had the entire expansion.
I am not arguing whether these changes were good or bad, I am merely stating we need communication because all of these changes taken together is changing the meta and the game from what a lot of people expected.
As a final note, below is a tier list based on peak performance on a fight late in the expansion (Original Wrath) where everyone can pump with no interruptions. It is not necessarily accurate for all fights, but it does present a pretty accurate simulation of perfect damage rotations.
These were taken from World of Logs rankings on the Heroic Festergut , using a median ranking of dps records so it’s not overly skewed by the very top players. This is what a typical full 277 character in each spec can expect to do on a nuke fight, or as close an estimation as possible. Basically, this is the Top 100 of each spec going at it hard, and with the 30% buff in ICC.
I’m showing these because you say things haven’t really changed, but the PTR Data and Projected Simulations are so incredibly different from what happened back in the day. I understand some of these things can be attributed to “player performance,” but I don’t think such massive swings are actually realistic. My opinion at least.
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Fury Warrior 18107
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Fire Mage 17799
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Combat Rogue 17671
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Retribution Paladin 17213
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Assassination Rogue 17052
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Marksmanship Hunter 17021
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Feral-Cat Druid 16689
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Unholy Death Knight 16540
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Affliction Warlock 16144
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Frost Death Knight 15985
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Shadow Priest 15807
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Arcane Mage 15414
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Demonology Warlock 15396
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Enhancement Shaman 15275
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Balance Druid 14924
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Elemental Shaman 14538
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Blood Death Knight 14276
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Destruction Warlock 14157
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Survival Hunter 13997
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Arms Warrior 12563
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Beast Mastery Hunter 9496
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Frost Mage 8257
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Subtlety Rogue 8047
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Well, to be fair, they did announce #SomeChanges approach with Wrath on day 1.
https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23813563/developer-update-a-look-at-whats-ahead-for-wrath-of-the-lich-king-classic
And they did talk quite a bit about other balanacing.
Not a Goal – Embark on an effort to provide ongoing balance to all classes phase over phase.
I don’t think anyone expected #somechanges to include major, direct buffs to certain specs or gameplay re-designs.
Anyway, it’s all good. I just saw your back-and-forth with another poster where you asked for data as to what has actually changed, and I remembered that old list from Original Wrath, so I figured I’d provide it.
We don’t have to agree. If you believe Blizzard is doing everything well, that’s great. I just wish there was clearer communication on what their actual goals are, since they seem ambiguous and sporadic.
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I wouldn’t call 7% buffs “major”, as it has barely affected overall meta, nor has it changed the actual content of the game. So calling wrath ruined is also a tad dramatic.
Nevertheless, yeah, i’m okay with agree-to-disagree, but as long as it makes sense. There is a lot of misinformation on these forums, and some think if they make enough threads of how poor and weak warriors are with big bold letters, it would somehow make it true, but the reality is quite the opposite.
Now, putting words in my mouth, does annoy me.
I never said Wrath was ruined. All I’ve asked for is some clarity by Blizzard before we dive into the final phase of the expansion.
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I never said it was you. A lot of people on these forums call Wrath that.
Okay. It felt pretty clear that you were responding to me, but if you weren’t, it’s fine.
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Agree with OP.
Awesome back-wasswards discussion here.
The balance changes are already in, we are in pretty much the last phase of the game.
What is the point of this thread if not to garner some missing social interaction.
Nothing in this thread matters, the changes ALREADY happened. What are you gonna do? Be a dev on a private server, or quit? Neither. You’re gonna keep playing and find out things are just fine.
These forums are just filled with grown sad men whining all the time.
Yes, and changes keep happening. All I (and it seems like a number of other people) want is some clarity and consistency. If Blizzard starts randomly throwing out more buffs or nerfs or mechanical redesigns in the middle of ICC, I’m going to be frustrated.
As a side note, it’s so cringe to post a whining comment about a thread you perceive as whining and useless. I’ll never understand people like you. Just move on if you don’t think an opinion has merit.
You quoting Blizzard:
It should have been a goal. The concept of dipping in and out of balancing some classes is totally flawed.
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Most if not all balance changes were reactions to community outcry.
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I don’t disagree. I really wish they are going go ham on balancing in Cataclysm.
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