lol, its about the weird standards for giving some classes needed buffs vs leaving other classes to be sub par, its obvious that the OP is referring to current wrath.
That’d be only like 1 sentence in this entire thread.
So far, all those adjustments were warranted.
Without Gary nerf, DK’s would be double the damage of Affics.
Without FF change, Feral rotation would still be 12+ buttons.
And without Ret buff of ~7%, they’d be at the bottom too.
They didn’t change the meta as some dramatize. Yes, a few things have shifted, but this also goes along with the fact that:
- Players today are MUCH MUCH better.
- We are on the latest patch.
Do rets really need that HoR change in ICC? Probably not. But there is no actual harm on bumping them up from B tier to A tier.
People here are mad dramatic.
I really don’t understand some people on these forums. All yall do is complain about dumb stuff. There are some that even complain about Settings UI changes… There was a post about how “short” Wrath is, and Drain literally posted release dates and the difference thus far, at the release of ICC, is like 9 days. People will complain about absolutely anything just for the sake of complaining.
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The only dramatic one here is you. We’re using a simple logic, if you buff class x.y because they are sub par, then why not buff class z since it is also sub par.
Because there aren’t really any. The only spec that could use a buff is Shadow Priest, but no one even talks about it. Rest of the classes/specs are very well balanced.
Want proof? Here.
TOGC is a horrible bench mark, I know it, You know it, everyone knows it. Hunters and rogues are two examples, yes shadow priest too. Also look up the definition of data and please try to understand what the original poster was saying.
Go ahead explain what data is to me please. You, very conveniently I must add, dismissing actual metrics recorded without providing anything else in your defense other than something something go google definition of data.
Go on. Explain it to me. Oh, and if you’re going to link me Ulduar/Naxx phases, I will link you Vanilla logs. If you’re to use old irrelevant parse data, so will I. But i’d prefer to stick with what’s happening TODAY and projected sim data.
Woah buddy you got issues. Anywho its clear as day hunters and rogues need a little push and its not wrong for the people who main those classes to want a nice handout like rets and ferals got.
Im still waiting for you to explain what data is.
You made a bold statement earlier. Stand by it.
TOGC is multi-target or cleave fight. ICC is mainly single target fight.
You cannot use TOCG wcl for ICC class balance.
The original 3.35 WLK is a very balanced version.
Any additional changes to 3.35 will ruin everything.
I made no bold statement, you are being over dramatic and who knows why.
Blizz has picked a few classes (hunter, feral, ret) for buff, and they cannot leave the rest to eat rock.
Yea! They should start with titans grip! Remove the 10% damage nerf
Still waiting on that definition you’re eager to teach me about.
Um, well, yes they can. Especially when no one else really needs a buff. The only spec that could use a minor adjustment is Shadow Priest. But even then, it’s not necessary. Because every raid will always have Spriest for its utility.
None of the changes made are some crazy world-altering experiences.
If yall are so mad that your spec is no topping meters, well, clearly you’re not playing this game for the sake of enjoyment, but to fulfill some sort of flexing need. Go parse 100. Be the best you can.
I got a hando parse on my Rdru on 1 boss once. Feels good. I don’t need to be meta Hpala/Disc to solo heal Razorscale or dual heal Hodir HM on 25.
Yes, I’m playing a C-tier heal spec. The worst healing class in the game. You don’t see me complaining. Because I actually enjoy playing it, regardless of meta.
Either way, i’m out. Yall can keep crying. PEACE 
P.S>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec7w05Qh1Fk&t=295s
Get some help pls.
Did you convert from Paladin to Rogue? 
Something that is a bit frustrating is how some people are mad at these changes because of how “balanced” OG wrath was. They are forgetting that OG wrath had balance changes almost every patch. Classes were changed and buffed/nerfed. Players weren’t fully utilizing interactions (snapshots and the like). I am guessing if we had data (I can’t find it) from OG wrath, we’d be doing double or triple the damage of our OG counter parts.
I think I remember during naxx how Blood DK was broken because of dancing rune weapon. Now it’s not even used. Unholy was a 2h spec in OG. Now it’s DW morb spec. Ret was a good dps across every raid. Now it was barely above Arms dps until the buff. Titans grip was a hit penalty until 3.1. There are probably more balance changes I missed but the game was changing constantly during that time.
If you look at the patch notes for OG wrath, there were class changes in al.ost every patch that would change up the meta for the most part. If somebody has data on dps numbers back in the day for each tier, that would be great to see if my memory is correct or if I was completely wrong since I can only find forum posts.
So since we’ll soon be in the exact patch of the expansion the 3.4.3 client is based on, maybe it’s time to get rid of all the outlier buffs then.
I still think my overall point is that Blizzard needs to communicate whether they are balancing the game or whether they aren’t. On Retail, you know things will shift. In Classic, we were originally under the impression that things would not (absent dire circumstances), but now Blizzard has implemented so many changes that it’s almost hard to keep up. Things like: Feral Buffs, Ret Buffs, Hunter Explosive Trap Launcher, Ignite/Deep Wound Munching, Demo Pack Snap Shotting, Raid CD Reset, Fire Ele Reset, Army of the Dead Reset, Shattering Throw Glyph, Feint Weave (Nerf).
Now, some of these changes were just straight buffs (i.e. Feral/Rets), but a lot of them (to give the best examples, Shattering Throw Glyph and Demo Pact) didn’t increase the potential damage these classes could do (because optimal damage rotations just had them not press them); however, in an overall raid scenario, they did, are, and will result in a buff because players are expected and often asked to use them. As in, Warriors who used Shattering Throw (as they should be) gained damage, and all casters gained some dps because the average Demo Lock is going to have a better spell damage Snap Shot (since it’s easier to do now). The same is for Hunter Explosive Trap. While that addition likely only marginally increased their perfect damage rotation, I believe the impact its going to have for the average player (and thus, overall actual raid damage) is going to be monumental given the mobility freedom they haven’t had the entire expansion.
I am not arguing whether these changes were good or bad, I am merely stating we need communication because all of these changes taken together is changing the meta and the game from what a lot of people expected.
As a final note, below is a tier list based on peak performance on a fight late in the expansion (Original Wrath) where everyone can pump with no interruptions. It is not necessarily accurate for all fights, but it does present a pretty accurate simulation of perfect damage rotations.
These were taken from World of Logs rankings on the Heroic Festergut , using a median ranking of dps records so it’s not overly skewed by the very top players. This is what a typical full 277 character in each spec can expect to do on a nuke fight, or as close an estimation as possible. Basically, this is the Top 100 of each spec going at it hard, and with the 30% buff in ICC.
I’m showing these because you say things haven’t really changed, but the PTR Data and Projected Simulations are so incredibly different from what happened back in the day. I understand some of these things can be attributed to “player performance,” but I don’t think such massive swings are actually realistic. My opinion at least.
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Fury Warrior 18107
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Fire Mage 17799
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Combat Rogue 17671
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Retribution Paladin 17213
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Assassination Rogue 17052
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Marksmanship Hunter 17021
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Feral-Cat Druid 16689
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Unholy Death Knight 16540
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Affliction Warlock 16144
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Frost Death Knight 15985
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Shadow Priest 15807
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Arcane Mage 15414
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Demonology Warlock 15396
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Enhancement Shaman 15275
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Balance Druid 14924
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Elemental Shaman 14538
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Blood Death Knight 14276
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Destruction Warlock 14157
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Survival Hunter 13997
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Arms Warrior 12563
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Beast Mastery Hunter 9496
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Frost Mage 8257
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Subtlety Rogue 8047
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Well, to be fair, they did announce #SomeChanges approach with Wrath on day 1.
https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23813563/developer-update-a-look-at-whats-ahead-for-wrath-of-the-lich-king-classic
And they did talk quite a bit about other balanacing.
Not a Goal – Embark on an effort to provide ongoing balance to all classes phase over phase.