Blizzard's Cataclysm Survey

After World of Warcraft Classic: Wrath of the Lich King comes out, what would you like to see the World Warcraft Classic team do next?

One of two things. Either do TBC SoM, or create a new expansion that continues directly after WotLK, but avoids Cataclysm like it never happened. Have the game retain its classic feel and avoid all the changes that led to the game looking like it does currently in retail.

10 New Dungeons - Blackrock Caverns, Throne of the Tides, Vortex Pinnacle, Stonecore, Lost City of the Tol’vir, Halls of Origination, Grim Batol, End Time, Well of Eternity, Hour of Twilight.

The dungeons in Cataclysm were actually decent. I really don’t have anything negative to say about them. The original difficulty of Heroics was refreshing.

2 New Playable Races - Introduced two new playable races: Goblins and Worgens.

I have no issue with these new races existing. I never ended up playing them though because by this point in the game’s history I was through with making new characters.

5 New Raids - Blackwing Descent, Bastion of Twilight, Throne of the Four Winds, Firelands, Dragon Soul

Although the boss encounters, for the most part, were well made, Cataclysm had a serious lack of raiding content. These 5 new raids (6 counting Baradin Hold) were just not up to par with the standards set by previous content. In Vanilla WoW, there were a total of 60 bosses across all available raids (not including UBRS). In TBC, there were a total of 49 bosses. In WotLK, there are 52 bosses total (not considering multiple versions of the same raid). Cataclysm offered a pitiful 28. It was as if Cataclysm was missing two entire tiers of raid content.

7 New Zones - Mount Hyjal, Vashj’ir, Deepholm, Uldum, Twilight Highlands, Tol Barad, Molten Front.

The only new zone I took issue with was Tol Barad. There wasn’t anything particularly bad about any of the other new zones, but nothing that left me with fond memories either. At most I can say that Vashj’ir was interesting in a way that was new to the game.

Account Wide Mounts and Pets - Mounts and Pets available to all new player characters within the same account.

I had been asking for this personally. Before this, getting certain achievements was a bit more frustrating than I think was intended.

Archaeology Secondary Profession - Archaeology focuses on locating, piecing together, and appraising artifacts.

This was an okay time sink. The profession itself wasn’t terribly interesting, but it was a nice way to earn novelty items.

Changes to Player versus Player Arenas - For example: removal of the 5v5 Arena format.

I never did much 5v5 in arena, so this personally did not affect me, but I can’t imagine it’s ever a good idea for a game to lose features.

Changes to Professions - For example: removing specializations in leatherworking, blacksmithing, and tailoring.

It’s tough to be too upset about this, because they never made profession specs as impactful as they deserved to be. It’s just a shame.

Class Design Changes - Modifications to class abilities, mechanics, etc.

What stands out in my memory is that they took it even a step further than they did in WotLK and focused on making each class less unique and less of a necessity to the raid’s comp. This is always a mistake. A step backwards towards the way TBC raids were composed would make raiding more interesting and challenging.

Collections User Interface - An interface used to track cosmetic items, mounts, pets, etc.

This was basically required with the amount of novelty items that were in the game by this point.

Dungeon Journal - Learn more about dungeons, specifically the boss encounters.

This basically just saved people from having to go to youtube or wowhead for info. Pretty minor feature. Not even really worth discussing.

Guild Advancement System - Guild Leveling, achievements and rewards.

I liked this idea, but it had some problems in practice. Although it was fun to trollishly summon your raid deep into the fatigue area off the map, I think the mass summon was overall a determent to the game. Guild rep also made kicking people from the guild, as a joke, a little too harsh.

Level Cap Increase - Maximum level increased to level 85.

grinding xp has and always will be my least favorite part of WoW. I absolutely dread the idea of having to level my toons again every time an expansion comes out. There’s only two reasons they do it. It’s because it’s a way to force players to go to the new zones. Instead of making the zones with cool incentives to draw the players in, they instead make the only incentive to be necessary quest XP.
The other reason they make us level up with every new expansion is because, with each new level up, our stats decrease. This is how they deal with stat inflation. The solution would be to stop making gear increase in power so drastically from one tier to the next. There’s no reason why someone’s Crit Rating needs to go from 15% to 60% over the course of 3 tiers. If they hit the brakes on the stat inflation, then we wouldn’t have to level up so much with every expansion.

Minor Quality of Life Changes - For example: AoE looting, improved flight paths, Spell alerts for procs, ammunition no longer taking bag space etc.

these were all good and acceptable changes.

Questing and Leveling Changes - Progression and leveling changes as a result of the environmental in-game updates

Basically, what they’re referring to is how the topography of Azeroth was changed. This was a bad move. Nobody was like, “I’m tired of Azeroth, change it!” I wouldn’t be surprised if all that was part of the reason why raiding content was so obviously ignored. They spent all their time and resources on the wrong part of the game.

Raid Finder - Sign up for a raid and choose your role (healer, tank, or DPS)

This was one of my least favorite things they ever added to the game. What made it such a big slap in the face when it was released is that we were all starved for content, and then instead of anything new, they just gave us the same bosses but stupidly easy versions of them.
The hard truth is that the sense of accomplishment for killing the final boss of a raid is severely diminished when you’ve already done it on easy mode. In Vanilla and TBC, just walking into the final boss’ room for the first time felt epic, but when you did it in LFR, it was basically just yawn. It also feels WAY less rewarding to get a new piece of loot that is the same basic piece you already have, except it’s just a different color or shade. LFR really worked to cheapen the epicness of the regular difficulty raids.

Rated Battleground System - Premade battleground teams compete, where personal and team rankings are at stake.

I truly enjoyed this and wish they would have implemented it sooner.

Reforging - Allows conversion of an item’s secondary stat into another secondary stat.

This was a mistake. Loot used to be coveted and important. Reforging made it WAY too easy to get non-ideal loot and make it closer to BiS, thus reducing the impactful feeling of getting BiS items.

Talent System changes - Streamlined 31 point Talent trees.

Basically no effectual difference apart from the removal of the feeling that you’re being creative.

Tol Barad - Outdoor PvP raid zone where players battle for control of the island.

Basically another botched attempt by Blizzard to try and figure out what world PvP is, only this time Tol Barad had even less potential than Wintergrasp.

Transmogrification - Ability to replace the appearance of your weapons & armor with other items.

Allowed players to wear the old gear that reminds them of when the game used to be good, while also making it very difficult to tell how geared an enemy player is before fighting them.

Unified Raid Loot and Lockouts - 10 and 25-player raids share the same lockout timer and distribute the same items.

Yet another move to make loot more accessible, and therefore, less valuable. In Cata, the game was very quickly losing the drive/motivation for players to improve or play more. Instead of tempting players to play more and more, they offered players easy payouts so that they have to play less and less. Doesn’t seem like a good business strategy for a service that wants you to continue to pay monthly.

5 Likes

Cata was my favorite expansion. Id play cata until the end of time if they released it

4 Likes

After World of Warcraft Classic: Wrath of the Lich King comes out, what would you like to see the World Warcraft Classic team do next?

I want them to go into complete maintenance mode and start fixing Wrath Classic bugs to get as close to authentic Wrath as possible.

10 New Dungeons - Blackrock Caverns, Throne of the Tides, Vortex Pinnacle, Stonecore, Lost City of the Tol’vir, Halls of Origination, Grim Batol, End Time, Well of Eternity, Hour of Twilight.

Never heard of any of this so it probably has nothing to do with Wrath. Don’t care.

2 New Playable Races - Introduced two new playable races: Goblins and Worgens.

Never heard of any of this so it probably has nothing to do with Wrath. Don’t care.

5 New Raids - Blackwing Descent, Bastion of Twilight, Throne of the Four Winds, Firelands, Dragon Soul

Never heard of any of this so it probably has nothing to do with Wrath. Don’t care.

7 New Zones - Mount Hyjal, Vashj’ir, Deepholm, Uldum, Twilight Highlands, Tol Barad, Molten Front.

Never heard of any of this so it probably has nothing to do with Wrath. Don’t care.

Account Wide Mounts and Pets - Mounts and Pets available to all new player characters within the same account.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Archaeology Secondary Profession - Archaeology focuses on locating, piecing together, and appraising artifacts.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Changes to Player versus Player Arenas - For example: removal of the 5v5 Arena format.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Changes to Professions - For example: removing specializations in leatherworking, blacksmithing, and tailoring.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Class Design Changes - Modifications to class abilities, mechanics, etc.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Collections User Interface - An interface used to track cosmetic items, mounts, pets, etc.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Dungeon Journal - Learn more about dungeons, specifically the boss encounters.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Guild Advancement System - Guild Leveling, achievements and rewards.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Level Cap Increase - Maximum level increased to level 85.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Minor Quality of Life Changes - For example: AoE looting, improved flight paths, Spell alerts for procs, ammunition no longer taking bag space etc.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Questing and Leveling Changes - Progression and leveling changes as a result of the environmental in-game updates

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Raid Finder - Sign up for a raid and choose your role (healer, tank, or DPS)

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Rated Battleground System - Premade battleground teams compete, where personal and team rankings are at stake.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Reforging - Allows conversion of an item’s secondary stat into another secondary stat.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Talent System changes - Streamlined 31 point Talent trees.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Tol Barad - Outdoor PvP raid zone where players battle for control of the island.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Transmogrification - Ability to replace the appearance of your weapons & armor with other items.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

Unified Raid Loot and Lockouts - 10 and 25-player raids share the same lockout timer and distribute the same items.

No changes to Wrath. No thank you.

What a terrible survey.

3 Likes

Cataclysm needed another tier between Firelands and Dragon Soul.

If they could do that… it would be EPIC…

3 Likes

I wouldn’t mind Cataclysm with very large changes. I wouldn’t play Cataclysm classic.

The dungeon assets are great. Make them shorter, and get rid of the need for stupid CC on most packs that slows down gameplay. Or if you are going to have CC cut trash in half. I remember some of those dungeons being like 1.5-2 hour slogs depending on the groups, whose novelty wore off quickly after the first month.

I love the races. If the devs want to balance a bit so Orc / Troll aren’t so strong on Horde PvE, and Humans for PvP, OK. I personally really like Goblin haste, it’s just fun even if not “meta”.

The first tier was absolutely annoying as melee (Atromedes can burn in hell!). Firelands was also really really annoying as melee. I just remember the first two tiers of raiding having a really frustrating time to the point where for the first time in years I started leveling a Hunter instead of playing my Warrior / DK and eventually I unsubbed in frustration. If you’re bringing the raids back, answer the question “why would you ever bring melee to fight X when you could bring a ranged instead?” Back then there wasn’t a good answer, and I remember things being very range heavy because of it.

The zones were pretty good.

Yes.

Archaeology was cool. I liked getting the weapon (Jin Rokh?). More weapons would be great too, though paradoxically it undermines traditional crafting (Blacksmithing, say). As a design decision, you could remove weapons from BS (etc.) and put them all in Arch, but seems weird. Archaeology isn’t going to be a deal breaker for me.

I don’t really care about PvP

I remember professions being easier in Cata but less rewarding (less big CD’s like in Wrath) but I might be remembering wrong. I remember professions becoming more “pointless” around Cata / MoP era but I don’t remember why. As long as professions are really worth it, that’s what I care about.

Colossus Smash can burn in hell. Fury played more like Wrath Arms than Arms did. Screw all the extra CD’s. Avatar, etc. Cata was the beginning of balancing classes around syncing big CDs and I hate it. If I wanted that design, I’d play retail. I’d prefer Wrath, where you might have some trinkets, racials, maybe A CD (Recklessness) that you could sync or whatever, but trying to have 30 sec CDs, 45 sec CDs, all over the place is just no. Please no. I hate it. I’d rather just keep playing Wrath if this is how classes are going to be.

Also prefer classes to have more specialized raid buffs. I want an MMO not an action game I play with other people. Leveling is pretty easy in Cata so if you raid needs class X, someone can level one.

Cool!

Cool and fun to read, but was put in the game to deal with the CRAZY amount of boss mechanics added. Seriously go look up a Tankspot vid for Heroic LK vs Heroic Neltharion. It’s insane that an intro raid in the expansion has such an insane level of mechanics whereas an “end boss” (yeah yeah Ruby Sanctum) doesn’t. Cata KILLED “friends and family” guilds by making the game so cumbersome (which is why you added LFR as an emergency measure). How about we just don’t do that again?

Fun! Leveling the guild and getting more Heirlooms was one of the few positive memories of Cata I had tbh.

I like it, provided we just keep the old Wrath Talent trees and just let us use 5 more points. Seriously, having more cool hybrid builds would be nice, just try it!

Please. I miss AoE looting.

It streamlined some zones and smoothed out the leveling process but I could take or leave it.

Fix raid difficulty so this shouldn’t be necessary imo. Use Wrath Classic Ulduar as a bench mark. If normal modes of Cata raids are clearable by less than half what Uldar nomrals are, then something is wrong. Fix it. IMO for T1, they’re entry raids for new guilds, make them around Ulduar difficulty (80% completion at worst) but we can disagree to an extent there, but ONLY to an extent.

T2 (Firelands) should be Cata’s Ulduar (a lot of love went into the fights) but it was so frustrating it just didn’t shine through. Every time I remember Firelands, I remember Bethtelac’s webs, Shannox’s mines (because we needed that many more ways to screw melee amirite?) Currently I never want to do it again.

Sounds fun!

People complain about this, but I’m making my DK tank BS / JC in Wrath just to get some version this (more sockets, better gems) to deal with def / hit / exp caps, etc. Doing this will just allow me to free up my professions to get to the same place.

No, just keep the Wrath trees, and ease up on CD’s!

I liked it less than Wintergrasp. don’t remember doing it much. If you can fix it, I’ll take a look, not a deal breaker.

Fun!

NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT! This along with the difficulty changes really gutted FnF guilds. You should be able to do 25N with your guild and do 10H with your core team of more competent people.

Or do 10H with your guild and then team up with another guild to field a 25N pug. That was what made Wrath special and I have fond memories of that. Cata destroyed it. 10 v 25 was never “balanced”, it was never going to be. You did this just to appease the people that raided like a job to make the game less grindy for them. Eventually you changed this AGAIN in MoP (Flex, etc.) because it still wasn’t working. Just stick to Wrath’s model and ROUGHLY Wrath’s difficulty (at least for normal, heroic may be different).

3 Likes

I’m having the most trouble finding with cata survey…was it an email?

I won’t be playing Cata even if they offer a free copy of Diablo IV with a year subscription to WoW.

9 Likes

I like your take on things. I agree with most. Thanks for the post op. I learned a lot.

This is an honest question, what specifically did you enjoy about Cata?

1 Like

That’s the one thing they said they would never do, under any circumstances.

The “WoW story” will never change. They are committed to the story already told.

They should have just reskinned a vanilla raid like Wrath did to pump their raid boss count without doing any work. 15 extra bosses easy.

No to Cata Classic, bring on Classic+ please!

Vanilla version of the game, extremely conservative class balance/QoL tweaks, new content as side-grade progression to existing content.

2 Likes

^ They shoulda done that with SoM.

1 Like

I think it was late cata they had the rogue legendary daggers. That’s about the only thing I remember from that xpac that was absolutely, truly epic.

I did the staff and the quest line was utter trash in comparison. It was just a grind, not a wow awesome inspiring thing.

The rogue questline, which I did in the next xpac, was still I remember, one of the most epic quest lines this game has had since classic. It also at the time would be something that would REALLY make it so you had to be a #1 caliber rogue as I can’t see getting through some of the stuff without really knowing your class well. Next xpac over, you could cheese it somewhat due to the power gap.

Having said that, there is no way I’ll ever do cata all over again.

I have done firelands at least 100x if not more. I hate Dragon Soul with a passion. Absolutely some of the worst raid memories I have of raiding in WoW. Firelands is fine, just I’ve done it so much I’m kinda at the “been there, done that”

Its funny because I’ve done ICC more but I feel ICC just is way more epic and fun. Can’t explain it. Maybe my nostalgia will face reality when we get to ICC and I won’t like it but, I always loved ICC and just how epic the raid felt and the Lich King fight when you are at ilvl to fight him is just a great fight imo. More fun than the fights that came in Cata.

Classic should end with WoTLK. I won’t be playing past ICC.

2 Likes

With the new retail expansion and whats happening with the dragons, what if retail witnesses the birth of the infinite dragonflight? and what if those infinite dragons travel through time and prevent the cataclysm from ever happening due to our retail players failure to stop them in time during one of the patches of dragonflight? maybe it would bring classic to an entirely new timeline post lich king. maybe straight to pandaria? maybe something new entirely… would be interesting to say the least. perhaps even a pre-patch event in classic could invovle the infinite dragonflight coming into classic from retail with a separate event happening in retail to try and stop them from coming over. Not to say the next classic experience should involve them. that would just lead to dragonflight classic lol. the retail players get a handle on it eventually and we dont see them in classic again. it would just serve to bridge the gap between wrath and any kind of alternate timeline (keep a season of mastery server or something for wrath as well)

As always, I don’t get a survey, but I’ve said numerous times that I don’t want my realm patched to cataclysm. If you want to rehost cataclysm (however illogical it may be), then simply do it with new realms so we can stay behind. As for a new expansion, if we wanted that, we’d just go to cataclysm or retail. Trying to make a separate path on expansions would be one big disaster.

Basically, leave wrath where it is, then do whatever you want on NEW realms so we actually have a choice. Don’t pull the same crap you did with crusade (again) and just forcibly patch all the realms up. If you patch us to cataclysm, most of us will ensure our subs run out by patch day. Mark my words on that.

4 Likes

with a couple tweaks cata would beat wotlk

Cata, Wrath, and TBC aren’t Classic WoW. If they want to make novel Classic content they can release a Phase 7 of Classic Era.

Here, I can make it easy for Blizz when they send me the questions regarding how I feel about Cataclysm classic.

Hell … and no.

3 Likes

Remember the “Halls of Origination” dungeon? That could potentially work as a raid, placed in a tier alongside The Abyssal Maw scrapped raid we all know of.