Let me make my point clearer; Frost has always had the dual wield identity. If you ever played frost with a 2h you were doing it wrong. Keep the specs identity DW, and UH Identity the more calculating slower 2h.
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This was never a thing tho. They simmed close enough that u could clear the content, at the time, with a 2h frost in your raid vs a DW frost. If the difference between those 2 specs stopped your raid from progressing, you had bigger problems with your raid team than that dk.
And again, if we are going for complete optimal, people would sim and bring only the top 2 or 3 dps and just stack them because why bring a mage if the rogue sims 3k dps more? The thing is, your average player wont have to bother with that. Maybe your top teir players (method folks) but never your every day joe. Again if a few thousand dps is holding your geoup back, thats a group problem not a you problem ESPECIALLY if you arent last on those meters.
Edit: Also I personally want the 2h dps from blood brough back as something bc i loved blood dps back when. But thats another can of worms lol.
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This "Identity " bs is what got us the butchered version of a game we are playing now. RPGs should have more options not less.
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WoW isnât a sandbox; and what honestly would you know you are level 80⌠you can have your opinion but come on back it up a bit. You talk about blood dps and frost tanksâŚthose trees literally lasted one tier before they were changed to frost dps and blood tankingâŚ
Lol imagine using lvl as an indicator (also the full 1-120 heirloom set should help indicatei have toons at max). Ive played every xpac since vanilla except wod. I have 2 120s (one of which is a dk), 6 110s and then others. This guy is lvl 80 bc im rerolling servers for Shadowlands and not going to pay money to race change and server transfer and saving my free 120 from SL pre for a Dark iron dwarf dk. Try agin bud.
I said nothing about frost tanking, try reading, but many people back when actually enjoyed frost tanking because of the strong aoe. Blood dps was just fun, i already said i enjoyed it personally, it was the actual anti paladin back then with bloody vengance and the mentality of the spec.
Edit: âmore optionsâ also doesnt indicate we should let dks use bows or shields. Return old weaponization and stop pruning. Again, people this is why we have a game where we were getting less skills per Xpac and given temporary power via Ap or azurite just to be thrown away at the end of the xpac and classes be completley borked till u get your new throw away power. #makewowgreatagain
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Unholy is slow? 
The haste specâs class fantasy is slow?
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Yeah reading that confused me. Seems like theyâve never played Unholy, despite being Unholy.
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Haha. Try again.
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He is 100% correct.
DW was pretty much always the go to (PVE) except for two brief blips in tiers.
The websites and videos are still up if you donât believe people who actually played before BFA.
There is a reason why they chose the spec to be DW. Itâs because it has almost always been that way.
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I dont know why the levels of viability even matter to you people, it holds no bearing on the argument. It was an option that people enjoyed, that should be the only thing that matters.
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Viable â optimal.
2h Frost was always viable, but not always optimal.
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False. 
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I kinda wish people would actually read comments on these threads. No one is refuting this claim. Moat people dont care and just want to play a style they enjoy. Stop using this as a reason when no one is arguing against it.
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Depends on where you draw the line on the idea of viable. Some people would argue that every spec and every talent setup is viable if youâre good enough. You can get the best players to play the worst specs perfectly, and they could hypothetically do fine. Thereâs even a somewhat famous example of a top raiding guild that decked themselves out in pre-Naxx gear and then went and cleared Ulduar (canât remember if they did hardmodes or not).
But most players donât play that well, and at what point do you accept that someone is handicapping themselves, and by extension the rest of the group? The fact that they are not great players, who are more prone to dying to fire, or not getting split DoT damage, lining up CDs properly, or otherwise not playing optimally actually makes playing the superior spec/build more important because if your skill is limited you may as well hit buttons that put out better numbers (outside of niche cases where the build is notably more difficult to play, relatively rare in WoW).
Once you step into anything remotely competitive, or group dependent, where output does matter in meeting timers, enrages, etc., few people want to hear the justification for why someone is playing a spec that is at best 10% behind another option in the class. Thatâs a huge difference, and once youâre worried about knocking down content, performing at 90% isnât viable in those cases unless youâre banking on farming and overgearing everything.
Thank you, I have said it a million times and that Monkiy guy in particular constantly replys to my posts claiming that I need to stop lying and claiming that 2H is better than DW.
As I have said a million times, DW was better in most situations than 2H. Period. With that said, the difference was not monumental or game breaking. And with that said - I didnât care, I liked 2H Frost because it was fun. I never cared about simcraft logs. I play to have fun and feel immersed in the fantasy of my character. Mandating that I play Frost as a DW spec ruins that. As long as 2H DPS is in the same ballpark as DW, which it was, I was happy. We can then hope that eventually they can get the class to a point where weapon choice didnât matter mathematically. But that would be the goal, not the expectation.
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Unfortunately, people are refuting the claim, which is why we have to consistently mention it, or let them rewrite history to their own bias, even though they never provide a shred of evidence. You only have to look at the post immediately above yours.
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This is the only valid point you made in that wall, and itâs still not even good.
Thatâs what the entire âNOT VIABLE REEEEEâ argument ultimately boils down to, it not being optimal for pushing content.
You know what the handful of people that want that peak performance can do? They can play the optimal way and use DW instead, like people did for ages before it was removed.
For the vast majority of players, who arenât pushing high-tier content and donât need to perform at peak efficiency, that argument outright doesnât matter.
The only way I could see that being a good argument is if people were also campaigning for DW to be removed. Few if any actually are, so thereâs no need to worry about people who need to perform optimally being unable to do so.
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Well said. Been my point since Legion.
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breath was good for NH and one fight in ABT. I have logs to prove this. Obliteration build/ Shattering Strikes build were also good in legion. Has not been about bos build until all of bfa basically.
It matters to the people who raid semi-hardcore/hardcore. The only people it doesnât matter to are the people who play casually