Blizzard "would like to do" 2H Frost

[Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord (Dreadmoore)]

That isn’t what I was talking about at all. You are just talking about 1 transmog overwriting 2 weapons, I’m talking about that if you brought back 2h and it was the weapon you got, but you liked say blades of the fallen prince you would only attack with your main hand and as slow as the 2h weapon.

The difference between the holy artifact and what holy paladins use for the most part is they still only have one weapon so the attack animation is fine.

To make the animation going from 2h to DW they would have to figure out a way to change the animation so that the DW option would attack with both hands and not just the main hand weapon.

Sure it will, because the game will think you have an offhand. It will treat your empty offhand as though it has the swing speed of your artifact.

Already answered your concern.

[Mauden-korgath (Mauden)]

Nah, it definitely doesn’t. Just tried.

[Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord (Dreadmoore)]

Nah, it definitely doesn’t. Just tried.

Huh! You’re right, I just tried it too. Well, good thing Blizzard is not an indie development company. The idea I had in less than a minute pondering the situation would fix the issue wholesale. Alternatively, instead of basing it on the artifact’s speed, it could just use the mainhand’s speed for the offhand.

[Kelliste-antonidas (Kelliste)]

The system uses what you have equipped since it still has to put out damage numbers. The animation just isn’t there. So if you want to use A DW skin over 2h if they brought it back then you have no choice but to DW until they are able to figure out how to override the 2h animation with the DW animation which hasn’t been done yet.

[Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord (Dreadmoore)]

The system uses what you have equipped since it still has to put out damage numbers. The animation just isn’t there.

Set it to work off of the mainhand’s weapon speed. Have the swings change hands on each swing. So, first swing is main hand. Second swing is offhand. Mechanically, it’s always the one weapon attacking but the model appears to be dual wielding.

[Kelliste-antonidas (Kelliste)]

That would be probably the best bet, or even making the offhand just attack when the swing timer is at 50%

[Barick-stormrage]

Even if 2h is brought back (please Blizz) I don’t think it should play differently than DW. Damage should be the same assuming your 1h weapons and 2h weapon have the same item level/stats.

While I enjoy fast spam play styles (pretty much all I have played in BFA was this type of spec.) I don’t really think it makes sense that Blizzard went this route with Frost DK. I would be perfectly happy if they just let me transmog so it looks like I have a 2h weapon. I want more cosmetic changes with other classes too like Fury warriors being able to tmog their weapons into 1h and offhand into a shield.

[Vynlardil-dalaran]

Correct me if I am wrong here Kelliste, but i am under the impression that you have no problem with 2h coming back, either as a transmog or if the devs could ACTUALLY balance 2h and dw properly. But you are arguing why a lot of suggestions in these threads wouldnt work and why. Would that be correct?

[Ljus-amanthul]

Because it doesn’t matter that the option exists, folks will play what sims highest.

And blizzard was never able to balance two wield types.

[Aurorahoof-wyrmrest-accord]

Warcraft3 reforged deathknight uses duel wield, I generally view the basic deathknight from that game to be unholy thanks to the unholy aura and mortal coil as well as animate dead. Perhaps its a hint into the future for unholy and frost swapping weapon types?

[Celaatia-emerald-dream]

I could only really see it if they did it via one of two methods. Both systems would need to separate the two variations from each other, like they did with the druid feral an guardian specs. Such as making it that you have a two-hander an a dual wield spec, which could be than balanced an modeled to play uniquely from each other, but also balanced mechanically an stat wise.

The second would be to have something where the mechanic of the spec changes based on a choice you make. I would suggest something like a weapon or item you can switch out, which changes your spec’s mechanic an even some of the stats of the abilities, and so similar to above the balancing is in more the weapon/item over the class/spec.

[Unholynite-thrall (Unholynite)]

Because it doesn’t matter that the option exists, folks will play what sims highest.

Thats been proven wrong time and time again when people play what they think is, wait for it, FUN. People play all 3 specs of rogues, play oblit frost dk, arcane mage. Demonology, even if it doesnt sim the absolute highest, that only matters for our top players. U can put a moron on the cookie cutter build and a pro on an off meta build and the pro will likely out damage that guy every time because spec is no replacement for skill thars been proven time and time again.

Theres posts covering balancing in this and even if 2h simmed 5% behind dw, people would still use it so i ask again. Why does it matter?

[Kyrios-bleeding-hollow (Kyrios)]

I will not play what sims best, never had. I have a few select classes/specs I will play. One of which was 2h Frost. The others are Ret Paladin and Arms Warrior. Sense a theme? If those are inoperable/unfun for me, I will unsub and stop playing. Period. At the moment, I don’t particularly like how Ret or Arms feels. I like Frost, but hate DWing.

I couldn’t care less about what the super optimal class/spec combo is. I play what I subjectively see as fun. I played Ret Paladin in classic and BC, way before it was even close to being anything close to an optimal class/spec. I then switched to 2h Frost in WOFLK-WOD. Bliz then screwed me by removing 2h Frost in Legion, after which I started un-subscribing, on and off, culminating in me nearly completely ignoring the entire last exp.

[Krissignacia-eldrethalas (Krissignacia)]

I didnt do that either and i had a great time

i wish they took the time and balanced them both, but i dont think its gonna happen

[Monkiy-faerlina]

Theres posts covering balancing in this and even if 2h simmed 5% behind dw, people would still use it so i ask again. Why does it matter?

Because it was never just 5% behind. That would be considered reasonably balanced, but it was almost always farther behind than that. It also limits design when you have to consider side effects with every balance pass, new tier set, talents, etc. Literally everything has a disproportionate affect on the two sides, they never even scaled similarly, so that even if you achieved that 5% balance it would last half a tier before it was out of wack again and required another complicated pass of back and forth balancing going into the next tier if you wanted to get back to that supposed 5% difference.

[Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord (Dreadmoore)]

Because it was never just 5% behind. That would be considered reasonably balanced, but it was almost always farther behind than that.

Why the heck you lying? (Why?)
Why you always lying? (Why?)
Mhmm, oh my god, stop hecking lying
Always lying to me (Why?)
You lying so much (Why?)
You’re making it hard for me (Yeah)

[Rhamnousia-stormrage]

The reason they moved to the “each spec gets one weapon” to make balancing easier yes. I dont see it returning honestly though i think it would be fun and it’s thematic vs DW. They arent goong to return 2h and keep DW for Dk when they took it from other classes.

That being said, the balance was hit n miss after each big patch and usually brought back into line and often times 2h was the better option for pvp because of the burst. And even in pve, people still used it because a good player with 2h would out damage an average player with DW. Again, thats a proven fact.

Also the people who are souly against 2h appearing at all, even as transmog are a joke. (Not directed at you, just blanket statement)

[Magicke-area-52]

A lot of people seem to be forgetting that DW frost has always been better than 2h even in Wrath.

[Monkiy-faerlina]

And even in pve, people still used it because a good player with 2h would out damage an average player with DW.

That’s not always true, but I agree with your sentiment. Skill and comfortability with a spec have a significant impact. But that can also be said across the board with specs, and the issue is really whether or not players are severely shooting themselves in the foot to play what they want. Hence the “reasonable” balance, or viability.

I don’t think it’s likely to happen either. It needs to be its own spec to not be the same balancing chaos it was before, but justifying enough of an identity for a whole new spec isn’t something to take lightly - it can’t just be “Obliterate spec.” I think the best bet is hoping for a physical based two-handed spec, with themes similar to 2H Frost (though hopefully with better scaling), but it won’t actually be 2H Frost.

[Rhamnousia-stormrage]

This thread is full of people literally saying they know dw simmed better than 2h. Not sure if trolling or u just read OP and commented.