I did and still, thats old passive while me and the otehr dude are talking about how thing works currently read what i said again, and again, and again. Apparently youre slow like that.
You are the best pupperfreund.
4 Likes
Weâre all slow here, weâre DKs. Thatâs just how we are.
Apparently some more than others though, since you donât seem to understand why that link is relevant to your âOblit would hit the same with 2H as it does DW.â Especially since for some reason you think that was about how it currently is, when 2H Frost isnât even a thing currently.
Yaâknow, let me try and walk you through it, youâve got this buddy.
If two-handed Frost were to be brought back without removing dual-wield Frost, Might of the Frozen Wastes would have to be brought back or something similar would have to be added.
Still following? Hopefully you arenât too confused yet.
So if 2H returned, MotFW returning as well would mean Obliterate would then do more damage when used while wielding a two-handed weapon.
Do you get it now?
15 Likes
This is obscenely rude. 
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Did you forget what you quoted?
Hereâs part of it.
Do you skim everything people post or something?
4 Likes
having choices matters a lot more than balance, i remember there were still a bunch of 2h Dks even if DW was the best and TG warriors even if SMF was the best, it was 5.4 i think.
and if they really care about balancing the game they would have not done azerite armor.
12 Likes
Both you and Kalliste are arguing that Obliterate is not going to hit hard with 2H because it operates the same with both 2H and DW. Might of the Frozen Wastes increases Obliterate damage beyond what the ability itself provides if you use a 2H but has no effect on Obliterate if you DW.
Bringing back Might of the Frozen Wastes and using it as an equalizing capstone (in other words, adjusting itâs numbers to equalize the damage between 2H and DW after everything else has been balanced as much as it can be) is what will allow 2H and DW to work together.
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So you want an old passive back that caused the problems that led to it getting removed. If you want obliterate to hit harder which it doesnât matter if 2h or DW you want it to hit harder, just buff obliterate. Even if you take the best frost dk right now from logs they have 9.9k str that is 11k hit (if there isnât hidden information and there is weapon damage calculated somewhere). For an end game dk that is pretty low for a 2 rune spell that doesnât scale with mastery and other classes are seeing like 21k hits. A core spell shouldnât be hitting for so little. It was doing more damage in wrath as DW more regularly since people were getting 25k crits with 0 buff Lich King kills.
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Or you just make obliterate hit harder and you take power away from BoS. Affliction is seeing this same thing with death bolt or whatever itâs called. The other 2 choices just donât compair one being a negative dps gain.
1 Like
Lie.
- Legion Patch 7.0.3 (2016-07-19): Removed.
- Warlords of Draenor Patch 6.2.0 (2015-06-23): Now increases Frost Strikeâs damage by 100% (up from 50%) while dual-wielding.
- Warlords of Draenor Patch 6.0.2 (2014-10-14): Effects from [Threat of Thassarian] added. Now increases the damage of Obliterate by 50% (up from 40%) and melee damage by 35% (up from 30%) while wielding a two-handed weapon, and increases the damage of Frost Strike by 50% (up from 35%) while dual-wielding.
âD-dual w-w-w-wield was out dpsing two handers naturally, r-r-right g-guys?â
6 Likes
The whole point of me bringing up arcane at all is because they ARE a sub-optimal build. Every other mage spec out performs them on that fight BY FAR. Just like would happen for 2H Frost in your scenario, so why should that be used as a metric for what should and should not be allowed?
Thereâs no difference between 2 sub-optimal specs, just 1 thatâs convenient for your argument and one that isnât. Also, my whole point was to prove that you canât gate keep âHard contentâ as you put it in 2019, since all of the content is being cleared by so-called âworstâ specs. So calling them a liability is wrong if people are willingly bringing mage specs to the raid that are out performed by other mage specs by easily 8-10% yet still killing the boss with no problem.
Edit: I feel the need to point out again that Iâm not on some campaign to get DW removed, just that Iâd like a 2H optional as well. Even if only cosmetic, but Iâd personally like a return to form. Just because i want 2H added back doesnât mean Iâm gonna face-roll my way through LFR with all the wrong talents and stats. I just want the option back to mess around with. Just because it wasnât âoptimalâ to some people is such a ridiculous argument to try and get rid of this option.
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Youâre citing a single passive as indicative of all balance. Youâre also looking at the one time weâve already pointed that 2H Frost was ahead in Highmaul due to the beta nerfs, and the subsequent buff to bring it back up. You couldnât confirm your bias anymore even if you actually tried to make any kind of actual argument.
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Man, Frost Strikeâs patch notes are a trip. âDual wield is so balanced and supreme!â
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Hotfix (2016-09-23): âFrost Strike damage increased by 12%.â
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Legion Patch 7.0.3 (2016-07-19): Now deals 500% of weapon damage, up from 88%.
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Hotfix (2016-03-03): âNow deals 10% less damage against another player.â
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Warlords of Draenor Patch 6.2.3 (2015-11-17): Damage has been increased by 10%.
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Warlords of Draenor Patch 6.2.0 (2015-06-23): Now deals 20% more damage.
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Warlords of Draenor Patch 6.0.2 (2014-10-14):
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Now replaces [Death Coil] for Frost death knights.
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Damage has been increased by 100%, but its Runic Power cost has been increased by 5 (up to 25 Runic Power in Frost Presence, and 40 Runic Power in other Presences).
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Mists of Pandaria Patch 5.4.0 (2013-09-10): Now deals 115% weapons damage (up from 105% weapon damage).
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Mists of Pandaria Patch 5.0.4 (2012-08-28): Now replaces Blood Strike. Weapon damage reduced from 130% to 105%, and bonus damage removed. Runic Power cost reduced from 40 to 35.
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Cataclysm Patch 4.1.0 (2011-04-26): Now deals 130% of weapon damage, up from 110%.
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Cataclysm Patch 4.0.1 (2010-10-12): Changed to a Frost Specialization.
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Wrath of the Lich King Patch 3.2.0 (2009-08-04): This ability can now be dodged, parried, or blocked. Weapon damage bonus reduced to 55%, down from 60%.
8 Likes
Still looking at one thing at a time and not the whole picture? Yikes.
1 Like
No, I specifically looked at the whole picture. Dual wield is, as I already knew from maining Death Knight every expansion since wotlk, a pale imitation of Two Hand.
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Go find some logs or sims.
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Because balancing arcane doesnât have an impact on anything other than arcane.
Back that up with logs and sims. A lot of that balance probably wasnât due to 2h vs DW but frost vs other specs and classes. You are just looking for confirmation wherever you can find it without actual logs.
2 Likes
Yeah, the spec was originally designed for big hits, which thematically and functionally fits two handed weapons much better. If there was some burning desire of Bliz to force a dual wield spec in the DK specs, Blood (to be the sole parry-based tank) or Unholy (for quick plague spreading attacks/bursting sores), are the specs that should of been forced to dual wield. Bliz literally picked the worst spec for force dual wield upon and has since been trying to create a dual wield spec designed around a skill which is suppose to splash huge single crit numbers (obliterate)âŚ
9 Likes
âFind evidence.â
::Dreadmoore supplies direct evidence that dual wield is repeatedly terribly behind. So much so that in the dual-wield only expansion of Legion, it must be buffed FIVE HUNDRED PERCENT.::
âFind logs.â
yeah nah, youâre wrong.
Cope.
Yep. Iâve been a long time wpvper. I used to rely pretty heavily on obliterate crits to ruin folks. I miss those days. Nowadays, Obliterate only barely beats out Frostscythe.
7 Likes