I always suggest that if SV interests you, or if you enjoy it, you should absolutely play it. Play what you like!
I don’t think most of the complaints here come from a performance perspective (though that might be part of it for some posters). There’s a lot of bitterness within the community with what happened to the old spec though.
So, don’t feel sorry for enjoying what you like. You’ve done nothing wrong, and I sincerely hope people are not directing anger your way. Really, the frustrations should be towards Blizz for failing to fulfil their pre Legion promises.
I never said it should be capable of the prior. You’d have to have control over your character to use the skill in the first place, after all, unless specifically mentioned otherwise (per Divine Shield, etc.).
Admittedly, probably so. Mostly a nostalgia thing.
Heck, I’d probably only want to see it on a BM that had more complexity going on in the first place; going “Beast mode” doesn’t really provide that kind of oomph if it doesn’t mark some thematic switch in affordances. When you’ve been this hypermobile, persistent force all along, adding (fading) CC-duration-reduction augments that theme, but doesn’t really innovate on it.
Anyways, was just feeling nostalgic. As noted before, the comment was made mostly (just not wholly) sarcastically.
I mean, let’s be honest, melee in general is at best ~C tier. And with the nerf to AMZ, even Unholy won’t find much gameplay in high-end M+, so maybe D tier instead. Too many anti-melee mechanics, not enough interrupts to justify the shorter interrupt CD, and the AoE cap absolutely castrated any chance of melee being brought at MDI levels where mass-pulling is essentially mandatory.
The fundamental issue with MSV, same issue that both Enhancement and Feral has, is why bring a melee of that class when you could bring a ranged that is less vulnerable to damage and deaths and performs at least as well (and in most cases, better)? At the lower end, “fun” can be an argument, but that stops really being relevant at around key level 16, where you’re not really doing it for the rewards anymore.
Unholy is run in the MDI, so it’s kind of dumb to say they aren’t brought in high end mythic +. So is WW for that matter, and you can clearly go to raider io and see all of the melee completing keys above 20. This is a dumb argument to make when the data clearly proves you wrong. Second, unholy being brought or not has nothing to do with them having AMZ. That whole discussion and why it’s being nerfed is strictly related to raiding. And, unless you have a crystal ball, you have no idea what next season’s affix will be, and therefore have no idea whether it’s melee friendly or not. Third, MSV (if you cared to actually learn) is one of the absolute best burst specs in mythic +. They can do insane aoe damage, better than most range excluding fire (who’s being nerfed. Their ST is what’s lacking.
Did you miss the “now that AMZ is nerfed” part? That’s a huge part of why they are brought. Not all of it, of course, their AoE is also awesome, but I’d wager we’ll see a lot less of them in the MDI in 9.1.
Realistically, Outlaw and WW are the only melee with any substantial presence in 20+, and they’re still miles behind Fire and Balance (though to be fair, both of those are being twapped with the nerfbat in 9.1 as well, so we’ll have to see how that shakes out). Incidentally, UDKs are actually pretty rare at that key level, less than 2% representation.
The fact of the matter is, ranged DPS are nearly always preferred. Ranged DPS have a ~70% representation, versus melee at ~30%. And again, that’s according to the data.
Dude, you literally have strats based around AMZ. Specifically, the tunnel-boss strat on Ickus relies pretty heavily on AMZ to help mitigate the damage, and the damage cap on it will demolish that usage in 9.1.
That’s true, though Prideful is only part of the picture. I’d argue that Belligerent Boast is more melee-unfriendly than ranged, but only slightly. The main reason M+ is melee-unfriendly atm is due to Storming, Spiteful, and the absolute slew of cleaves, PBAoEs, and anti-tank mechanics that mobs have atm. It makes being in melee ranged far more hazardous, so melee are both more susceptible to being gibbed and just straight have to stop DPSing more often.
I’ll believe it when I see it. If MSV were so amazeballs at AoE, why are they literally never seen in the MDI? Or really even in higher-end M+, for that matter? There have been a total of 5 SV runs at 16-24 this week, compared to nearly 900 for MM and ~130 for BM (source). The highest SV has run this week is a +21, whereas MM is pushing +23’s.
Yep, that’s one of the key issues. Havoc actually has that issue too, tbh. Great AoE, mediocre single target. It’s actually quite annoying, tbh. If they’re going to impose AoE caps and square-root scaling to make ranged better at mass AoE than melee, that needs to come with the corollary that melee are better at single target or stacked cleave. Right now, few melee really have an unquestionable strength in any given area.
I can only assume that you don’t grasp the difference between specs being played a lot versus capability. Unholy has been run in the MDI, and there are Unholys running 22 and up keys. Yes WW and Outlaw is run more, but you claimed Unholy doesn’t find play in high end keys, which is flat out a lie.
It’s almost as if this was addressed… hmmmm, now where would that be… Oh yeah, prideful and storming being anti-melee. Melee also brings much shorter kicks, which are needed in high end mythic +.
Lastly, I’m not going to hold your hand. You are free to go to the discord and see just how well SV does in aoe. It’s ST is the only thing it’s lacking. And again, you need to quit equating representation to skill. Of course there aren’t a lot of keys run, not a lot of people play SV. Is that supposed to be some hot take? It’s rather stupid.
The best you can hope for is the classic “For a variety of reasons outside of our control it was not met with acceptance by the community” or the old “It was not received as well as we had expected.”
Tbf, that just means their overall DPS, which will include the sustained ST of boss fights, isn’t top 8 specs material. Poor MDI representation is hardly a problem limited to SV.
Also, though…
Yeah, RIP that. If Holy PLD wasn’t still leagues ahead after everything though, strats like this might have gone the way of Disc. Idk.
I assume that you’re referring to the era that was Vanilla/TBC here.
First off, that’s not “most of the game”.
Secondly, it was neither melee-oriented nor PvP. It was just about adding utility and better defensives + some extra damage to the base toolkit of the class, which in itself was first and foremost focusing on ranged combat. Taking SV talents back then did nothing to change this.
Same as how taking BM talents back then also did not take away from the core gameplay with ranged weapons.
Designing a modern core spec to focus primarily on melee combat, because of what we had back then makes about as much sense as if they were to also make BM be about abandoning ranged weapons altogether and instead fighting almost exclusively with/through pets.
The very core of the class as a whole, back then, was about ranged weapon-combat above anything else. When they decided to implement Core Specs, it made perfect sense for all of them to be focusing on the use of ranged weapons, just like the class always did before.
These abilities were in the game even before Core Specs were introduced.
Either way, Marksmanship is about the theme of being a sharpshooter and skilled weapon user.
That was never the theme of the old RSV. It focused primarily on augmenting arrows/projectiles along with traps. For example through the abilities you just mentioned; Explosive Shot, Black Arrow.
In that case, I would prefer if they made it so you’re 100% immune for a set duration, like the first 6-8 seconds of BW or so, and after that you still have the extra damage, but not the immunity to CC.
Agreed.
Fun is subjective, in context.
They always tend to ignore feedback, up to a certain point, or until they themselves for w/e reason change their minds.
Honestly they could take away the penalty, let kill shot be done with a range weapon or melee weapon, give SV another shot…black arrow perhaps, and your done. Then people who want to be range SV could equip and bow and have at it.
Not really. We would still have the question of proper AoE-functions/abilities, for range.
Not to mention how weird the overall composition would be with the mish-mash of some ranged shots, some…thrown stuff, a pocket crossbow, and what amounts to the two most iconic BM abilities utilized in yet another ranged spec(kill command + BW(CA)), just with minor twists to them.
And, how it all would be completely void of depth and proper interactions, and ways to further strengthen it/adapt it to specific encounters.
And, we also have the fact of how none of it would amount to a playstyle that actually functions similar to the old RSV, which is what most players are asking for when looking at this topic.
