Believe it or not, i do ACTUALLY try to understand the spite. I genuinely ask people to explain the differences because my only experiences with ranged survival were either, watching my younger brother play it in Cata/MoP YEARS ago, or watching outdated videos about the spec from each of those expansions. As much as I personally love the fantasy behind the melee variant, i understand that some people simply, do not. Some may even feel jaded about their spec being ripped away from them. Personal attacks devolve the discussion in name calling and other shenanigans of the same ilk.
Wouldn’t the Zealot be the one that calls people not agreeing with them garbage?
And considering you think RSV is unlike anything in the game tells me everything about your own delusion. I hope I find something half as perfect as your belief in RSVs uniqueness.
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blizz likes to double down on bad ideas. lol
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Nah, that’s “Run, gun, and pet-related error message”
“Brainless ‘Run and gun’” died with Lone Wolf RSV, 'parently.
I hated everything about Sidewinders, how it bypassed a mechanic in place of that mechanic being more polished baseline, how it looked, its gameplay niche, all of it, but yeah, there are parts about 7.3 MM I miss. (Parts, too, I’m glad are dead and gone, but still…)
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But you had to maintain dots as sv so doesnt this remind of it?
No, that’s not me being a zealot, I hardly care if RSV was to return or not. That’s me being toxic.
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Your main dot had a cd. I found it no different than pushing focus fire every so often.
Letting bm stacks drop now is waaay worse than a late refresh a dot.
Hi. I’ve read and re-read your last several posts addressed to me, and I’m tempted to ask you to use smaller words… 
Ok, I’m exaggerating, but not by much, it may come down to comparing definitions.
I don’t know whether Legion MM had equal or more depth to it as compared to WoD MM. I’ve heard other player’s opinions, but can’t form my own, as I couldn’t/wouldn’t play Legion Hunter.
Depth of play, to me, is more than choosing how to react to stimulus, it is also, and of higher importance, having the ability to to make things happen, to cause the flow of the play to go in the direction I, and possibly my allies have chosen.
Being able to do this, doing this, is to me, depth of play, my play has depth.
If all I do is follow a rotation, there is no depth to my play.
What I do affects my environment. Having abilities enough to allow me a range of ways to affect my environment is more depth AND a higher skill ceiling.
WoD, as MM Hunter, I had more abilities/talents/glyphs to accomplish, achieve this. It was more fun. More complex.
More ways to make mistakes too.
Blizzard did a dirty to hunters in Legion. And not even the whole range vs melee topic people still like to put their take on.
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Right, the only hunter unable to have fun with surv are the ones who play hunter to have their hand held while playing.
Hunter is the most fun and most fun to watch well played. Surv hunter, well you might just come in ur britches.
Its not about having fun or not. As you can see in WFR its not just about dps, but utility. DK’s did insane dps yeah, but with AMZ there was a reason to stack them. There is no reason to bring a Surv hunter unless you are trying to prove a point that you can. Until there is a fundamental difference in utility between MM/BM and Surv, Surv will continually take a backseat regardless of its dps output or how fun it is to play.
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Understandable. I’m pretty bad at keeping things short. v.v
To be clear, I don’t mean that depth is only what you react to moment by moment. The pre-planning is huge for me, too, so long as it still has potential for forced (but managed) change.
Perhaps I use the term “stimulus” or “situation” more broadly than most people would, is all. For me, even the spec itself (or, how powerful the abilities are compared to each other, or how they can set each other up) is still a stimulus of sorts.
Same with knowledge of a particular fight. The more confident you get with a fight’s timings, the more you’re willing to take risks to make good use of those timings.
I meant to account for both, and more, in my criteria. I’m sorry I wasn’t clear.
This is where we differ, though. To me, the glyphs typically taken provided very little choice (obvious choices were obvious) and either…
- Didn’t really change how you play, or
- Should have just been baseline anyways.
Thus they kind of just felt more like a fee you pay Inscriptionists in order to play your spec fully (to get the full or polished experience), rather than meaningful choice.
That’s not to say glyphs can’t serve a great purpose, theoretically. I just didn’t find that to be the case in WoD, at least (or even really at any time prior, at least for Hunter).
Its not the number of words, it’s the rares amongst them. Dumb it down to about a 8th grade vocabulary level so as to improve the likelihood of me and all others catching on to all you’re saying.
How we differ, as regarding glyphs, is mostly point of view, I think.
They were nothing new to you? They were completely new to me, outside of my experience. There was no “obvious”, not then, they were just plain wonderful. Here are a few I used.
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Glyph of Camouflage
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Level 25 [hunter ability
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Your Camouflage ability now provides stealth even while moving, but your movement speed while Camouflage is active is reduced by 50%.
Glyph of Explosive Trap
Major Glyph
Use: Permanently teaches you this glyph.
Your Explosive Trap no longer deals damage, instead knocking enemies back from the trap when it explodes.
Classes: Hunter -
Glyph of Distracting Shot
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Level 25 [hunter ability]
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Your Distracting Shot now distracts the target to attack your pet instead of you.
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Glyph of Misdirection
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Level 75 [hunter ability]
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When you use Misdirection on your pet, the cooldown on your Misdirection is reset.
Again, two parts there:
These two were among the few exceptions, though I almost never took either because they seemed more often a nerf to me, and, ofc, I couldn’t rightly give up the slots when there were easily better options.
For Explosive, I almost always had sufficient kiting tools already, and at the time I ran with someone who’d only play Arcane Mage (Supernova build), so I didn’t need it for the rare AoE interrupt, whereas I did occasionally want to use its damage with Misdirect to quickly divert small packs of adds or the like.
For Distracting, I already had Growl for that purpose and could better leverage Distracting Shot by, well, kiting the enemy myself, and then Growling if need be to ping-pong the enemy back and forth.
(I’d soloed many things only an expansion old using this manner, along with no-tanking current-expansion heroics for several expansions just off that tech, taunt rotations with fellow dps, and slows, etc.)
Had all glyphs been meaningful toggle choices like those, with nothing that was an easy benefit only (let alone far more beneficial than competing glyphs), I’d have been happier.
But, things like Glyph of Camouflage, Cheetah, Misdirection, Feign/Play Dead (if made a second button-press of Feign), etc., just felt to me like they should have been worked in baseline at lower power.
The explosive trap thing, was niche, for blowing peeps off cliffs and such. What fun!
Of these, the misdirect is the one I am fairly sure I’d still be using.
What you were doing then, is pretty much how I play now.
The difference in our relative experience level, as WoD was my first complete expac (you have played others, right?) was likely huge, and likely competency too. I hadn’t long escaped Huntard status.
That’s why I was so dismayed, so furious when Legion arrived, I’d just become competent with my chosen Class and Spec, and I only had ONE toon, this one, and overnight it was destroyed. I’ve never played RSV, but I believe I have a very good understanding of how they feel.
My spec has come around to where I can again recognize it, I want to see the same happen for them. They will know it when they see it, and they DON’T see RSV in MM. Apples aren’t tomatoes.
I dunno, man. I’m just too worn out to even argue about it anymore.
Survival ain’t fun, hunter ain’t fun, Warcraft ain’t fun, what’s the point.
Playing Survival currently and it’s fun and does great dps in M+. Yes single target raid boss damage isn’t great…but I’m normally middle of the pack in the groups I’ve been in so far for raids, and that’s without a single target legendary.
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Legit this is how I’ve been feeling lately. It’s just the lack of care from devs on class stuff that really stings me.
BM doesnt satisfy the appropriate fantasy.
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