Blizzard will never admit that Survival rework is a failure

I feel like this would probably push even more players away tbh. I would rather try to appeal to what the hunter community wants from the class, which is one reason I argue for a 4th spec consistently. I think there is a craving for an updated version of the old spec to come back, and likewise I think repeating the mistakes made in Legion and pushing away the current fans is a mistake.

At this point though, I think blizzard is just being way too stubborn to ever make it back into a ranged spec, and I really don’t see them adding a 4th spec just for hunters.

And the reason I say make it a tank is simple:
They can’t figure out how to make it even remotely interesting / unique as a melee dps, and there are currently 0 mail tanks, which already makes it a unique thing on its own. If we’re stuck with the class hitting stuff with a pole because “but legion artifacts!!” might as well make it into something truly unique instead of the dumpster fire that it is now.

Giving hunters a 4th spec would open the floodgates to every other class, one of which only has 2 specs at the moment. Compounded by Blizz saying they would never do it, and only did it for druid due to the innate distinction between guardian and feral within the spec at the time.

In short, better to ask for Santa to come along.

If I am being honest, I doubt they will either. But I do think it is the best move going forward. And if I don’t argue or ask for it, it certainly never happen.

Honestly, let them. I don’t think that’s really a problem for the hunter community. The only ones who really “lose” here are Blizz since they would need to do more work.

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Trust me I do agree, I’m 100% a supporter of RSV, it was by far my favorite spec ever and it’s no coincidence that when they changed it to melee, my wow playtime significantly decreased.

As much as I’d love for it to come back, Blizzard seems to be too hard-headed to do so, so I’ve turned to “what else would be interesting?” and tank is the first thing that comes to mind, especially with the spec being called “survival” and originally being centered around improving survivability / cc / support. Just makes the most sense moving forward in my mind.

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I guess my issue is, while I personally would enjoy tanking (I can already act as an emergency tank in M+ if the tank dies as BM), I don’t think it would have much wide spread appeal within the class for similar reasons why the current spec is unpopular. Most hunters don’t play hunter to be melee, or to tank for that matter. There’s numerous other classes that already provide that if players want.

To be clear, I’m not saying there would be zero support or that no one would be interested in it, but I don’t think there is enough to warrant it if that makes sense? It would also be repeating more of the same mistakes made in Legion by effectively deleting a spec that some players are attached to. I thought it was wrong for RSV, and I think it’s wrong for MSV too.

I think they should lean into a more hybrid playstyle of weaving in and out of range personally as a distinct way to keep what they wanted with the spec, and it seems like a natural progression from where it is today. I of course still think what happened in Legion was wrong and ultimately do think a 4th spec is the best way of satisfying the community.

The other major issue I think a 4th spec addresses is the precedent set in Legion. The choice they made set the precedent that blizz can and will deletea spec if they have an idea they would rather pursue, regardless of whether players want it or not or if it makes sense or not. A 4th spec acts as an admission that what happened was a mistake and simply should not be repeated.

Once upon a time, I would have loved a tank spec for hunter as a 4th spec. But I think that after Legion, it doesn’t make as much sense to me at least.

That would be a very interesting approach, and there’s precedent for something like that working in an MMO setting (See: Red Mage in FFXIV, I play that class and it’s actually quite fantastic).

It’d be a great excuse to give hunters back the melee + ranged weapons both equipped, but I feel like that’d also open the flood gates, specifically with warriors / rogues with the “why can’t we use bows then?” complaints and that’s a whole other can of worms that’s probably best avoided, lol.

Right now, though, it’s a complete mess of a spec and needs some pretty major changes to not just be “basically BM but with a stick”

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I agree with this statement. I believe Hunter is a case that legitimately deserves a 4th spec due to the massive community rift.

I’d also be down with a tanking spec, but like others have mentioned, it sounds messy, and there’s already bigger fish to fry with the current execution. Overhauling again would just result in MORE unhappy player demos.

I personally love SV Hunter in its current iteration, but maybe would like to see some abilities/talents baseline, and a few tuning adjustments.

In fact, if there were no “melee” spec option for Hunter, I probably wouldn’t play it. However, my preferred activities are not high-level competitive; I enjoy all forms of wPvP and bgs, so there’s the separate fundamental question of what can be done for the class in high-level competitive content.

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I’m curious, do you prefer MSV as it is now, or did you like it better during legion? I feel like they’re different enough to almost feel like different classes entirely. I didn’t hate MSV at first, I just hated that we lost RSV to get it, but these days I just cannot stand it despite genuinely trying to enjoy it. To me it just doesn’t feel right, and just feels like BM but worse

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Similar to the complaints of other classes wanting a 4th spec, I just don’t think that’s that big of a deal. I think the outcry from that would also be far less than a 4th spec. There’s more tools these days for warrior tanks to pull without a bow for instance. If other classes want a 4th spec like a bow using rogue, the great! If they ask for it and it’s a popular idea within the community, I’m totally fine with that too!

I think there is plenty of room within the game to allow for more thematic and distinct playstyles that represent different fantasies for players that are currently missing right now.

I very much agree with this sentiment. I want everyone to play and enjoy the game ultimately, I’m not here to take away anyone’s fun haha. But I think there are good arguments to justify the 4th spec solution which I think will placate the community. After five years and daily threads, it’s clearly an important topic to the Hunter community that is clearly not going to go away until there is some sort of resolution to what happened.

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that’s something that has actually crossed my mind more than a few times, in a bit of a “what if” scenario: what if rogues got a “dark ranger” spec? that’d be divine and totally fitting within the rogue archetype. hell, that could even be where we get the old rsv feel back, since rogues are known for poisons, etc.

Wishful thinking, but it’d be cool as hell, it reminds me of Rift, the rogue class was the baseline for their ranged spec, and it worked similarly to wow rogues, combo points, energy, etc (bard did too and it was interesting as well) and worked pretty well, so I imagine giving rogues something similar would be pretty cool.

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Yeah, I think there are plenty of valid ideas that can work on various levels both thematically and from a gameplay perspective. I will always argue for what I think is right for hunters, and if other class communities have a real desire for something in particular, I fully welcome them arguing for it much like I am for an updated RSV.

I fear Blizz has seen what happened with SV, and may one day repeat the same mistake and tear the community some more. I will always try my best to argue against that and hope to steer blizz in a direction that I think will please the most players, despite knowing a 4th spec is unlikely.

Demon hunter should get a 2nd DPS spec thats ranged/allows bows :slight_smile:

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Yeah for sure, the precedent of “delete this spec” should start, and end, with Survival and I hope they don’t decide to apply that line of thinking to any other class/specs. It clearly is not the right call, and it’s very unfortunate that it happened to what was absolutely my favorite spec. And I understand that that’s how some people feel about MSV. So there’s no real winning answer here based on Blizzard’s history

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or…hmm… 2 hand crossbows… and it can have two edgy-sounding resources instead of 1. It can flip around everywhere too :laughing:

I was kinda surpised when they didn’t add a ranged spec as a 3rd and opted for just 2 specs

Impressive you read all 300 posts we made since I joined in? Or did you scan through like everyone else coat tailing off of the “I hate msv!” crowd?

You’re right though unfortunately when people come in and deliver that one liner does make me go off course in the discussion. If only people could start the conversation with something productive when they join in. I’m glad we can go back to actually discussing survival over the slew of people jumping down my throat just because I say something they don’t agree with. (Fact or not)

Blizzard learned what they did when they got rid of a spec. I’ve been wanting 4 specs since WoD. Melee hunter was one and I Think I’ve discussed with Lazyguide there’s a lot we can do with the other classes in game. My hope is that with the addition of more specs we can make them feel mechanically different from other specs. If rogues or dh would get dark ranger I would hope its mechanically different because aesthetically it’s edgy hunter with no pet.

I actually read though a majority of this thread before posting, nothing better to do atm tbh, yeah it’s pretty sad.

If only :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I think with those classes’s baseline mechanics (especially rogue), finding a way to implement the feel of old rsv would be both possible and an opportunity to make it a little more interesting with the use of combo points & energy vs. focus, while also matching the rogue’s general theme of “shadows & poisons & stuff” It’d be a pretty win/win situation in my mind

I tried with my first message on this board :sweat:

An example of how a dark ranger rogue would feel unique while still having utility/base mechanics of rogue would be something like this (this is off the top of my head)

A combo based system where your combo is prepping for your finisher. Like build your own ammuntion as the combos.

1 combo point add poison (adding a dot to your arrow/bullet)
1 combo point add gunpowder(Add damage to the finisher)
1 combo point add shrapnel (Give your arrow/bullet aoe)
1 adds shadow magic(slows or cc)
1 adds i ran out of ideas lol

but something like that mechanically you’re not going (I’m exaggerating for the people in the back) Sinister strike x5 then Eviscerate. However you’re thinking of what type of combo point generators would be put in your rotation to optimize your finisher for that moment.

Again for the people in the back this is off the top of my head not the perfect example.

Edit: I think it still kinda fits the fantasy of a rogue because you are applying poisons/affixes to your arrows just a rogue would do.

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No, see, this is the crux. You can only see a difference if there’s an aesthetic difference. Fantasy is the only differentiation to you. I see difference in the mechanical flow of the rotation, and I’m clearly not alone.

The MM rotation is identical to me whether I’m using a bow or gun. MM is very similar to Destruction, despite the wildly different fantasies. Both of those are very counter to your perception, and you can’t for the life of you seem to grasp that your perception isn’t universal.

No. I’ve not asserted anywhere that they are facts. I’m saying that my perception of the rotation is valid regardless of whether you share it. You don’t see a difference between RSV and MM, or with really any ranged DPS, excepting fantasy differences. I do.

I pointed to the popularity more to highlight that this isn’t just me asking for this, more than just me that sees a difference. That is why RSV should return, because there’s actually a fairly solid number of players that do see a difference, that do not see an equivalent spec in the game right now.

Except you kinda are. You’re over here saying “why do you need leather seats? There’s 6 colors of fabric ones available! They both fulfill the same function!” Well, some people prefer leather seats, and that preference isn’t invalid just because you don’t perceive a worthwhile difference between the two.

Incidentally, I’d like the point out that I by in large do not either. The leather seat thing is an example of something for which I do not perceive a substantial difference, but that I don’t begrudge those that do.

However, tires I do see a difference in. There’s a world of difference between the standard stock all-weather radials and the Pilot 4S’s I have on my Z. They’re both made of rubber, they’re nearly identical in shape, and they both fulfill the same function, but man is there a difference in the handling.

According to you, though, we should all be driving around in Honda Civics because all cars are the same anyway.

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I’m going to repeat myself, despite what Dawn mentioned earlier. This is very clearly a food crime lmao

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