Yeah but five of those are 45 sec or longer, and stuff like final reckoning are the cds to line up with burst
Obviously if you name every single ability the class has, it’s going to seem long
You press divine toll probably 4 or 5 times in an entire encounter for example
What DPS spec has 7-8 buttons for all of its offensive abilities? That is very few.
I too have gaps in my keybinds for ret… this isn’t the case with other specs…
The number of lists above is kind of hilarious. Most of those are long cds and of course if you are going to write a list of every single ability it’s going to look daunting.
I can do it too
Way too much!
Ridiculous. Ret is the easiest, most mathematic, predictable rotation in the game.
The fact that Divine Storm and Templar’s Verdict are a perfect 1:1 switch-out for AOE and ST makes it unfair to say they both crowd the rotation.
99% of the time it is BOJ+CS+Judgement - TV/DS, and fit in refreshes of Exorcism every 20 seconds and consecration when you can.
Can you imagine how boring the class would be if they actually took out the fun stuff like final reckoning because the player base said it was all too much
The irony is that the people suggesting the ret rotation is too hard are actually the perfect people to play ret, because you’ll have a rougher time almost anywhere else
You are vastly oversimplifying ret and you aren’t posting on one, seems a bit disingenuous.
Been playing cata since ret so pretty sure I’m not doing it wrong when I’m consistently top dps in dungeons and bgs. I think y’all are just trying to find something to complain about so you have less buttons to push. Blizz plz help I’m bad at my class and don’t really know how to play it wahhhhhhh. In the words of so many others sounds like a skill issue to me.
and i think your only here to troll lol
thats your choice to take every talent that is an ability. I have 12 damage buttons max which includes all damaging cooldowns. You dont know what button bloat is until you play monk.
I’m not here to rake you over the coals and I appreciate that you did post on your paladin. However, I don’t see any m+ runs for you this season so it’s hard for me to qualify your statements.
I think we should allow one another to express opinions about the health or state of a spec without coming to pejorative language so quickly. People of all different skill levels play every spec and each opinion is valid, though it should be qualified within context of what content that player is seeing. What I really think is unhelpful is when a player of any skill level thinks they have the right to paint with such broad stokes, as if their tastes and experience is more valid than anyone else’s. It pretty much is guaranteed to obscure any meaningful discussion.
This isn’t just you, it happens everywhere.
Anyway, I’m not daunted by lots of buttons but I think the trees and overall design of ret could really use some work. I look forward to any discussion pointed at what could be improved.
I don’t think the existence of button bloat on one spec should override the concerns over button bloat on another spec.
I personally love having a large suite of buttons to press but I think there is so much that could be improved upon.
Another thing to keep in mind is that ret has a number of abilites tied to group support. I find this aspect of playing ret to be essential to individual skill expression. This is added on top of having to perform to similar standards as any other dps. It’s not just tossing out loh or bop, it’s about being aware of what’s occuring around you, fight knowledge, anticipation, and assisting with group stabilization whenever you can. I find this to be less true in a raid setting of course, but in 5 man content there’s quite a lot to do if you are trying to maximize your play as a ret!
funny coming from a Mage. Your class has been faceroll since WoW started.
Okay, sure.
Ret:
Compared to Fury:
Compared to Unholy:
Compared to Outlaw:
Compared to Enhancement:
And those are 4 specs that have been praised as being some combination of enjoying, engaging, or fluid to play. I’ve included 30-45s~ CD abilities that are either integral to the actual rotation (Apocalypse), have some form of CDR or rest (Wake, Wolves, RtB), or have relevance to the playstyle (Odyn’s Fury).
I don’t think anyone has ever argued that. The issue is BoJ, CS, and Judgement all perform the exact same functionality and step over each other and only exist to bloat the rotation.
It’s not that it’s hard, it’s that it’s Legion Survival where you’re spinning all these plates to optimize your DPS and it’s still worse than much eaiser, better specs.
And speaking of Survival:
Best Ret parse on Mythic Terros: 79k~ with all the plate spinning
Best SV parse on Mythic Terros: 76k~ when mashing Mongoose Bite, using KC every 6s~, Flanking every 30~, KS only < 20%, and WFB only when you have no focus & KC, Flanking, and KS are on CD.
The problem isn’t difficult, it’s Effort for Reward, and Ret is severely lacking in that department.
Ret doesn’t take much effort at all though. It’s a really easy spec. Have mained it since Pandaria and I still suggest it to new players and such because it is so easy. It’s not an insult to say it’s easy.
Has only gotten easier over the years too. E.g. there used to be a judgement “window” meaning you had to spend judgement precisely before your spenders. Now you can just spend it anywhere.
I can imagine it might seem like a lot if you come from another spec where the goal is to make sure that you press every single ability on time, but ret doesn’t work like that. The goal for ret is to spend the most optimal available ability. For example if you’re at five holy power and have all your other abilities available, it’s not “Oh, no, how am I going to fit everything in here” … it’s spend, then on to the next one (WoA most likely).
Yeah, retribution is easy—and I like that about it. 1 proc, that’s it. Not a “maintenance” spec either like the likes of Affliction, Shadow, Beast Mastery.
The few things on a “timer,” like the Blesisng of Dusk and Dawn, I find pretty easily satisfied by your normal rotation. Exorcism is a bit annoying, but it’s once every 20 seconds so it’s not bad.
Just simple math really: 3+2=5-3=2+1=3-3=0
I really like that about it, a lot of it’s muscle memory and I’m not constantly staring at my keybinds like other specs.
Until you got enough haste.
No it isn’t easier than it used to be. This is completely false.
You can’t add more buff timers and more damage modifiers and a number of new spells into the rotation while giving it a reduction in damage if the mobs are moved and call it easier.
How is this easier than SL?
How is this easier than BFA?
How is this easier than Legion?
If you want to argue it was to easy in BFA and Legion ok make the case.
The truth is pretty clear —>It keeps getting more bloated every Xpac. Got 2 spells added in SL got 2-4 added in DF depending on build. Sure we took seraphim and ES on Sludgefist but generally we didn’t.
4-6 abilities have been added in 2 Xpacs, and at least 2 more timers to watch… Mobs move and our DPS dives now. This is clearly easier… RIGHT?
The hell we talking about man?
I think you’re misunderstanding. It had nothing to do with haste.
In legion, Judgement buffed the next Holy Power ability, there was no temporal window. So, you had to spend it right before TV so you wouldn’t waste the Judgement buff on something like Crusader Strike. They removed this in BFA, but when it was there it meant you had to plan ahead of time and use your abilities in a specific order so that Judgement would be the last cast before GCD.
This was if you had 0 haste or 40%, it worked exactly the same. Had nothing to do with haste.
The class has been a lot easier since then, because you now have a period of time in which to consume the judgement buff, judgement doesn’t have to be the penultimate cast.
…
As far as BFA, SL, DF. It’s equally easy I don’t think anything has gotten harder, with the exception of refreshing Exorcism every 20 seconds. You had a CDs in SL like Divine Toll, Ashen Hollow, and such then. It’s not like this long-cooldown things are completely new. IMO, those abilities make the spec far more fun. We got very little in terms of exciting changes compared to other specs, I would hate to lose Divine Toll or something because pressing it every 1 minute is too much.
The change of Wake of Ashes is also amazing, totally spices upp Art of War.
You really believe this?
That’s how it worked, look it up. You may be trolling I’m thinking…
Actually here’s the tooltip for you, just found it
That’s how it works now…
In legion it debuffed the target for a period of time.
WHY DON’T YOU GO LOOK IT UP
Just google Ret legion guides you can find a bunch of guides describing in video how judgement worked.
I don’t need to I actually played the damn game.
Lol. Okay you are trolling.
Watch 13:30
Watch at around 6:54 he uses TV judgement stays up
Watch at 21 minutes used finishers judgement stays up
Ret get’s easier every Xpac.
Did you even play Ret? I doubt it.