To add to previous post; for what it’s worth, I do think your proposed system would be perfectly fine and I would have no objection to it.
I just don’t think the sky is falling. The existing system simply isn’t a big deal. There’s no evidence that it has been abused in a meaningful way in the past, and no evidence that it will cause any serious problems, especially if Blizzard appropriately punishes anyone who tries to abuse it.
Are you insinuating no one is innocent?
Quote the part where I made the argument that innocent people are being targeted. I bet you can’t.
The entire premise behind my argument is that innocent people can be punished, and that’s a problem regardless of how frequently it actually happens.
If I provided you proof that the system can and has been abused, you’d argue “but it doesn’t happen very often and the people abusing it get punished,” wouldn’t you?
I’m against innocents being punished. Are you not?
Is not applicable in a discussion about THE GAME. We’re not talking about the forums.
No, it isn’t.
Source? I’m not talking about the forums, either, by the way.
If it were against the rules, why even allow the filter to be disabled?
Except when they AREN’T breaking the rules, they can still be punished.
What part of that is unclear to you?
Wow. It’s really telling that you’re okay with innocents being punished.
I find your language offensive. Can I report you now, or would that be abuse?
Exactly why it’s the perfect feature. You get to decide for yourself what you want to see and don’t want to see in chat. Why do you need the power to decide what I see in chat, too?
If you really think that, I wonder whether what was said actually bothers you that much.
That doesn’t solve anything. Innocent people still get punished.
No, it’s the fact that you don’t have to be breaking the rules to get punished that we have a problem with, and people can decide to report someone because something they don’t like showed up in their chat even though it’s not against any rules.
How is ignoring good for nobody? If you’re the one upset by what you see, wouldn’t NOT seeing it be good for you? Or is it not really that offensive to you; you just want power over other people?
Yet they could still be mass reported, disconnected, and squelched. See the problem?
I find advocating for censorship offensive and vulgar. What now?
They made it up, just like how they made up that swearing is explicitly against the rules.
Then the solution is to have a higher limit to your ignore list, or to clear names from your ignore list if that person is banned (as many gold selling spammers are, which constitutes the majority of my ignore list, for example).
RCR wouldn’t be a problem if it just added people to a separate, temporary ignore list.
Have you?
Nope. The concern is that people who don’t actually break the rules can be reported and squelched because the system is automated.
There are definitely people who have an issue with the rules themselves, myself included, but that is a totally separate issue.
“Obama was a bad president.” Against the rules? No. Can get you squelched, anyway? Yes.
There’s a slim chance of someone walking into my house and stealing my stuff, but I still lock my doors.
Yes, it is. Stop being disingenuous.
You also seem to think that even if you DON’T break the rules, you deserve a swift punishment.
No one has argued the abuse is rampant. If anything, most of us would agree it’s pretty rare, because the delicate types who would report language that doesn’t break any rules are pretty rare themselves.
Exactly. LOL
They seem to disregard that fact quite often. The only real benefit to RCR is that it takes fewer clicks to file a report.
A GM still reviews the reports, and the person is punished well before any guilt is actually determined by Blizzard.
Murderers are an exception, not the norm, but still a problem we try to prevent.
Because people are punished BEFORE Blizzard checks the reports, because the punishments are dealt automatically by a system that doesn’t actually care if you broke any rules or not.
I don’t think that anyone disagrees that those that falsely accuse get punished. That’s fine and supported by anyone, but it should be based on review as it could be something as small as difference between what I call spam and what Blizzard calls spam , but they should also check if there is any (in any game channel) communication between the reported and the reporters planning this and if there was then all (including the reported) should be punished hard (even harder than in the case of false reports) for false report and wasting GM time.
Breaking the rules has nothing to do with it. RCR squelches based on a certain number of reports. What you actually did will not matter. They will then say that what you said was offensive to them. Is it that you dont understand that other people have opposite opinions that are just as valid or do you really think the smaller number of servers wont push you together with potential abusers?
I am saying the number of people that would use RCR to abuse others is so small the chance of me encountering any of them would be slim to none.
And even if I did and I got squelched it would be overturned on appeal.
That is my point. The abuse is not an issue that anyone (especially not me) should worry about as long as they are able to follow the rules they agreed to.
Then you punish the abusers into the ground and make an example of them!!! That is the prudent thing to do and not just let things go on without consequence.
Salt the earth with the tears of those who try to guild wide report someone because someone asked them too!!
Mind you… they will cry and scream unfair…and I will tell them what my momma told me… You reap what you sow.
Or just use the ticket system and leave it to the multi billion dollar corporation to hire sufficient employees to monitor their game, as they should be doing.
Well, I tried. Here is where you and I part ways.
This,
The system is going nowhere. That was made HILARIOUSLY clear when they commented on it on the beta forums. It was accidentally removed and they were almost comically reassuring us like: “Oh, don’t worry, it’ll be coming back, it was an accident that it was ever removed”.
So yeah. The attempts to paint it as a doomsday, game ruining horrific system that would prevent anyone from enjoying classic as a whole sort of died the day beta went live and we spent 2 months playing and enjoying the game without any issues whatsoever.
Trolls and chat spammers are FURIOUS about this system and their inability to get it removed from Classic. It’s been my favorite thing to follow these last few months. Sooo many people threatening to never play and stop following the project if it wasn’t removed. And I see all those names still whining in every thread.
Well, that didn’t take long.
Here we have a perfect example of trying to hide in the grey areas. “Don’t punish for abusing the system. I swear I and my friends weren’t trying to squelch that player. We honestly thought he was spamming. We just have a different definition of spamming than you do, apparently. The fact that he was selling the same product I was tryng to sell for less than I was charging had nothing to do with yhevreports. I swear.”
No. IMO, the grey areas should be removed and anyone submitting a report that leads to a squelch that is subsequently overturned is swiftly and severely punished using an escalating punishment system.
I see many proponents of the auto squelch claim that people should be willing to accept the consequences for their actions. That also includes those players submitting reports, IMO.
Those that report things such as racial slurs, death threats, foul or abusive language should have nothing about which to worry since those squelches will not likely be overturned.
Questionable things like using /trade in a respectful, polite manner should make a player really consider whether an actual violation occurred and a report is warranted, IMO.
I’ll stand by what I said as those will be super rare either way.
His proposed system is absolutely not fine and its only purpose is to create a chilling effect that makes people afraid to utilize RCR. It would be like punishing people for reporting a crime if the accused is not found guilty.
Beyond that, even if a squelch does get overturned, that doesn’t make the reports against the person “fraudulent.” People could genuinely feel something is worth reporting that another person, who might be a GM, might be willing to let slide.
Then you’ve not been paying attention to what was actually argued, at least by me. The abuse does not have to be rampant to be a problem.
I don’t understand why anyone would be AGAINST preventing the system from being abused.
So wait, you don’t want to go through the hassle of filing a report, but you’re okay with innocents having to go through the hassle of filing an appeal?
Why should an innocent person have to appeal a punishment that should’ve never been dealt in the first place, and one that was entirely preventable by just NOT AUTOMATING IT?
Interesting. It seems rather awful that they don’t explicitly prohibit swearing in any of the rules, but will explain after a report that is the case.
Oh well, that’s a different discussion to have, so for now I’ll just concede that point.
Most of us don’t really have much issue with the right click report system itself; only the automatic punishments attached to it that indiscriminately punishes innocent and guilty alike.
Maybe, but so are people who don’t break the rules and just don’t want innocents to be punished unfairly.
The three groups of people are not all one and the same.
I agree. It’s why I often reject any solution that punishes people who file false reports. You have to be able to prove it was done knowingly, which is a difficult thing to do.
It’d be perfectly acceptable if the system just didn’t automatically deal out punishments, instead. Then there’d be no abuse to punish in the first place.
Some people are plain binary, they just cannot see a grey area. It’s either/or and they refuse to acknowledge a 3rd or 4th option.
Then there should be no reason not to remove those “grey areas” in which abusers plan to hide, right?
If the same people continued to do it, they likely first would get a warning and on up
I have paid attention and that is exactly what people act like is going to happen in Classic, yes you spelled out that you don’t feel that, but by and large that is definitely not what the consensus is.
Every system can be abused if people want to.
Everyone can find something offensive and report it, we live in a society now where people can not take criticism regardless if its constructive and everyone is a winner just for competing.
Auto squelch needs to go, if you find something someone says offensive use the ignore function. The only thing that should be auto muted is gold selling.
Why though? It didnt happen before.
I see the “grey area”.
I also see that “grey area” enabling abuse of the system by allowing abusers to hide within that “grey area” to avoid punishment forvabusimg the system.
How can Blizzard punish players that abuse the system when they claim things like “People could genuinely feel something is worth reporting that another person, who might be a GM, might be willing to let slide.” or “it could be something as small as difference between what I call spam and what Blizzard calls spam”?
because 15 yrs ago chat was a cesspool in WoW and I would like to believe we are better than that now and can make WoW (classic and retail) a better place than it was 15 yrs ago.