I don’t ever want to feel compelled to group for overworld questing.
I never felt compelled to in vanilla, don’t want to in classic. Especially not because it’s too crowded. Sure if I need help yes but to feel compelled because of too many people is bad design. Just as bad as the boring solo questing you complain about.
That’s what happens when players who never wanted Classic, and have no interest in it are handed Classic for free. They want to turn it into something that it never was. And sadly…Blizzard is starting to accommodate them (layer caps as a player convenience is just one example). So in the end what happens? Do the true Classic fans get driven away so that convenience-minded players can take over Classic? Then what was the point? I would call that an utter failure.
This Eloraell guy is in every single thread about about layering defending it with every last breath. Pal, you have 10639 posts, I think it’s safe to say that you’re fine with most of Blizzard’s decisions but most people aren’t and layering is yet another one of them
Well, I would say that’s sad. And catering to that mentality is why WoW is no longer an mmorpg. When I play a racing game, I expect to race. When I play a shooter, I’m going to shoot things. When I play an mmorpg, I expect to group with other players. That is the very nature of that type of game. At least it should be.
Never said I don’t want to group. Just that I shouldn’t feel compelled to group for content that is easily soloable. I enjoy playing with people.
Just don’t think feeling compelled to group is good design even for an mmo. Matter of fact that’s actually why WoW blew up. Cause you didn’t have to group to level. If it wasn’t, other mmo’s that required grouping would’ve blown up.
Uh, the post count isn’t representative of an opinion.
It’s funny how there’s just as many people posting against layering, as for it, yet “most people aren’t” ok with it. Because it tends to be that if people aren’t posting about something that’s happening, its because they’re ok with it. The vocal minority whining about Layering doesn’t have a silent majority in the wings just not saying anything.
People tend to post about the things they hate, not the things they love, so the majority of players seem to be ok with it.
So you want to force people to do what they don’t want to do? I thought being pigeonholed into one style of play was what Classic was getting us away from?
People keep cooking up this fantasy that social interaction was necessary back in Vanilla and why it was so successful.
The reality is that Vanilla was successful because it was the first MMO that made leveling soloable by any class.
Bingo! Tell them what they’ve won Johnny!
I grouped all the time in Vanilla. As did everyone I knew who played. Was it required? Was it optimal? Required for a lot of quests, yes. You obviously didn’t have to group for everything.
But we’re talking specifically about launch day and very early time period of Classic. Players should 100% pretty much be forced to group. That is good mmo design. Get players over their social anxiety right away. Teach them that other players are an asset, not a liability. Get them grouping up from the start and they’ll carry that philosophy through the first weeks, months, or even years. Players pick up on those kind of game designs.
And sadly those game designs have been abandoned pretty much universally in this genre. In the past week I’ve played SWTOR, ESO, FF14, GW2. All have high points and low points. But none of them offer a social experience. You can do anything and everything just by yourself. It makes me wonder what happened to the mmo genre.
And I don’t want to see it happened to Classic. It already killed WoW for me once already. So this egg timer, convenience-minded, efficiency-driven philosophy of leveling as quickly as possible without the interference of other players needs to go die in a fire. And the devs need to get out of the players’ way and let this game be an mmorpg again.
Bingo.
This ain’t Everquest.
Agree to disagree. That imo is bad mmo design. That is also why mmo’s Never caught on before WoW. Because you were forced to group to do anything worthwhile.
Who said anything about social anxiety? I just don’t want to be forced to do something in a group that I can do solo. Yes it’s an mmo but it’s still an rpg. The mmo aspect comes into play with grouping, raids and PvP. I shouldn’t be forced to group to advance my character in the first 10 levels.
Any mmo offers a social experience if you make it. The problem really lies with the people playing the game. I’ve had just as many good and fun social times on the mmo’s You listed as well as retail that I did in Vanilla. I’ve also had bad experiences elsewhere too and in vanilla. Even on pservers I’ve had groups that were just as mute as groups in rdf on retail. On the same hand I’ve had groups that were just as talkative and friendly in rdf that were in vanilla or on pservers.
The social experience comes from the people involved.
There will be 3000 people in your layer. The same as a Vanilla server was. You will have as many or as few people in your zone, as the % of that 3000 who choose the same race(s) as you.
If that’s not enough people for you, then you’re not asking for authenticity, you’re asking for changes.
Also what happened to the MMO genre was WoW. It was the first where you could level solo to level cap as any class. It is what drove the genre into the lack of socializing that we have now. No not current WoW but vanilla WoW.
Being able to do anything by yourself became a thing with WoW. Mmo’s Before that venturing out solo meant dying and having a hell of a time getting your crap back solo.
Look, you’re singling out one thing about WoW and saying that’s why it was a success. You don’t know that. I could just as easily say mmos before it didn’t catch on because they were unpolished turds. Whereas WoW was extremely polished for its time. Or one of a million other possibilities. The fact remains that grouping (even for questing) was far more necessary back then and the game grew to 8 million strong. Nowadays when other players might as well not even exist the game is on its deathbed. So, enough of this convenience single-player game design argument that that leads to a successful mmorpg.
I disagree completely with this. There’s nothing that says in an mmorpg the only time you should group is for certain content…namely raids or dungeons. That’s a very BfA philosophy. And it’s one the genre as a whole should abandon. Get back to what sets mmorpgs apart from other game types: the social experience in all aspects of the game.
This is precisely what I’m talking about. And the players’ behavior stems from the game’s design. If the game teaches players that other players merely slow them down and are only useful for raids then…that’s how players will react. That’s why no one groups up, no one talks, no one interacts. It’s why the game no longer has a community.
Lol deluded classic diehards.
If mmo’s Before WoW were unpolished turds they wouldn’t still be running. UO holds the record for longest continuously running sub based mmo. Project 99? Ever hear of it? It’s like EQ from back then still going strong.
The real reason why WoW blew up is cause it was easy, it opened them to a broader audience. You won’t find an mmo vet from that time period that says otherwise.
Exactly. And Classic has the big opportunity to revive the genre by itself. But in order to do that, it needs to provide the experience no other modern “MMORPG” out there right now can provide: the Classic experience.
Because no other game out there on the market can/is willing to do that. There’s nothing like old WoW on the market.
If Blizzard capitalized on the uniqueness of Classic, rather than try to mold it into what’s already out there, they’d get to see just how much people really crave for this oldschool MMORPG type of game.
But in order to do that, they have to let it stay the same, start to finish.
They already know there’s a ton of people waiting for just that old game, good and bad sides included. It’s more of a “safety net” than they’d need.
They can take a risk here, knowing their loyal players will stay if given the original game, while finding out just how great that unique MMORPG formula really is in modern times, even with it’s downsides that modern “standards” wouldn’t allow for.
Yet if they go ahead and modernize the game within it’s first weeks or months (to it’s clear detriment…), then why’d it capture new players?
It’s just another modern “MMORPG” experience, except with bad graphics. Again it has convenient options to escape unpleasant gameplay or social situations, just like retail. Again it has no consistent, dignified world and community, just like retail and other modern games. It’s not “World” of Warcraft, AGAIN!
What’s gonna sell Classic to new and old people, if they modernize it and turn it into something else it’s not supposed to be? It takes away it’s uniqueness that it needs in order to hook players in to a very special experience that’s not been on the MMORPG market for a long, long time now, because it moved far away from the traditional values of the genre (which made it so great back then…).
Blizzard really is shooting themselves, and their loyal core audience in the foot here, if they continue to be so worried that they’re gonna let themselves lose out on filling a big hole in the market with this unique MMORPG experience that Classic could provide…if they just let it.
It’s not just any game after all, it’s the beloved masterpiece of the genre. Have some faith in your own games, please. You’ll reap the rewards if you do. #nochanges
You’re misunderstanding the logic. In my own words pretending to be Blizzard:
- We expect that only about 20% of people who initially join will keep playing past the first burst of activities. It may taper off slower or faster, but we expect a lot of tourists, nostalgists, and other parties who aren’t invested in the long term.
- We expect that more people will stick around if the experience is palatable in terms of playability. While our projections are still a solid 20%, we want to ensure that that 20% has an experience that keeps them coming back, and if more than that decide to stay that’s great!
- To ensure this experience, we need the game to have a minimum level of playability. Upwards of ten thousand players funneled into 8 zones at launch with no phasing will result in complete lock down of questing content. This provides not just a sub optimal experience, but an unpalatable one that may drive people away.
- We know that first impressions matter a lot, and that sometimes a bad first impression (or an unplayable one!) can cause some players to simply leave and not return. Particularly true if they believe that the design philosophy is to let those situations work themselves out with no assistance from us.
- While we expect that the situation will become vastly less congested within the first few weeks we’re not comfortable with our projected numbers in that first period. Players on realms that lag out or go down constantly become upset even after a few hours, let alone days or weeks. We feel that it’s necessary to ensure that the launch goes smoothly so that everyone who wants to play long term has the ability to get started.
All of these things considered, we do not consider it viable to leave the servers completely exposed to what amounts to a majority percentage tourists. These players, without any ill will, could create an environment that pushes players who want to stick around out of the game. No matter how much you want to do something, that excitement wanes quickly if the product is finally in your hands but you can’t use it without frustration for days or weeks.Layering, then, is our solution. It’s not ideal to the theme of Classic and server identity, but it provides the ability to mitigate upwards of ten thousand players, a significant portion of whom will be human and forsaken, clogging areas up and preventing a flow of game play.
Adding one:
- While initially we’ll have a few copies of each world, those copies will naturally collapse as the population goes down, and we promise it will be gone within the first few weeks, and the realm can continue without changes from then on.