The topic of the interview is encounter design/tuning with relation to healer design/tuning, and how Blizz has found SL lacking in HPS requirements and resulting in excessive healer downtime (to DPS or otherwise). We are talking about how to balance healing checks and DPS opportunities. I fail to see how it’s not relevant.
I also don’t understand how Reshyk has been disrespectful.
…What? 
Sop, I know disrespect when i see one, and trust me, Resh is far from disrespectful. He has been nothing but respectful in these topics. And i disagree with some of what he’s saying, but at least were somewhat at an understanding or something.
Infact, the only disrespectful person i see here is… well… the one who gave you that challenge mode video.
No you aren’t. Saying healers should do X because its maximal and healers should do it is not even theory crafting. This doesnt even apply to 90% of all content or more. Further more anyone whose in said content is already doing this. What you and some others are doing is pushing a toxic agenda.
No, he is lying either to himself or to everyone here. What he is doing only servers to generate a toxic dungeon environment and believe he is doing it with malice.
How do you even know that? Do you have evidence that he’s lying and being malicious?.. Because i don’t see him lying and being malicious…
I disagree with them and i’m not a fan of the hypocrisy that is going on with the pro-healer DPS crowd, as well the rest of the DPS role nonsense for that matter that’s been going on for years, a decade even like pulling for tanks because “Oh their going at a snail’s pace”. But this and all of that can just be boiled down to simple impatience. Something that isn’t malicious inherently.
I, uh, don’t even know what to say to that.
So looking at the section of the interview that the topic is referencing -
“Ultimately we prefer that healers are spending their time healing, so the combat and encounter team are in constant communication about what kind of damage output should we be putting out there on the player and our encounters?”
“So that’s something that we talk about often when we discuss certain classes and specs and what their strengths and weaknesses are. We definitely feel like healer damage is a part of that package that they might bring. But there’s a lot of other elements to that as well. There’s what kind of utility they’re bringing, what is their throughput, what do their major cool downs look like? And damage is certainly an element of that.”
And
“So yes, we certainly keep an eye on healer damage. In the grand scheme of things it’s much smaller than say what a DPS, or in a lot of cases, even what your tank is doing, but we recognize when you’re talking about Mythic Plus, one fifth of your group is your healer, so any damage that they can put out is going to add up over the course of the Mythic Plus run, versus, let’s say, if you’re in a 20 or even 30 person raid. You know, that healer is a much smaller percentage there. So that’s something that we look at. We do consider it in terms of its total package of what the healer is bringing, but ultimately we really focus on how much that is playing into what they’re bringing to their group’s total contribution.”
So this is a Blizzard class designer recognizing that healer DPS is a part of their package as a healer/group member, and talking about how Blizz wants to up the HPS requirements so that healers have less downtime to DPS, since they aren’t healing enough. Which is fair. This doesn’t mean that they are going to abolish healer DPS, there’s no mention of that and it would be practically impossible, but it’s what led us to discuss why/how/when healers DPS and why it’s prevalent in high content.
No, it’s not required in low level content and shouldn’t be necessarily, but it’s prevalent in high-level content which is a basket Blizz has a lot of eggs in.
The answer here is simple. He wont frame it to content where its relevant. He believe it should apply to all healers in all content. He doesnt run lower content. He wont have to deal with any of the problems with what hes saying.
This isn’t FFXIV. Healers should heal.
Except he has framed it multiple times? Read his posts before you accuse him of doing things he hasn’t really done.
He holds the title as most verbose forum poster, if there’s anything he’s good at, it’s definitely adding details and context.
From what I understand, (and I’m not him contrary to the allegations of some other posters), he thinks that healers using downtime to DPS is good play. Which it is. He hasn’t ever said that it’s an actual requirement in any low-level content.
You’re also a mistweaver?
I disagree with that on multiple occasions, vehemently sometimes, but how’s that lying or being malicious?..
But that isnt whats being advocated here or even relevant since you know full well in high level content healers are already doing this?
You’ve already got plenty of people in this thread saying things like they dont care what content it is, they expect you to min/max your healing/dps or youre wasting their time. The only reason we even had this interview is because OW is failing spectacularly trying to do the exact same thing with their healers.
OW2 is failing for a number of reasons, “healers”/support doing damage (which they’ve been doing?) is not one of them. Or are you referring to steeper healing requirements? I know very little about OW.
And I am not those people. The level is relevant insofar as requirements/expectations go. If you apply high-level play to low-level content, then you are good. If you apply low-level play to high-level content, you are not good. If you apply low-level play to low-level content, or high-level play to high-level content, then you are doing fine and as expected.
HPS checks cannot be tuned in such a way that healers have no downtime. What do they do in downtime? As mentioned by the interview, damage is one of those things. They are just looking into narrowing windows of downtime.
(Downtime referring to no healing activity, not no activity at all).
Incorrect.
The purpose of the healer, the same as the purpose of a tank or a dps, is to succesfully complete the content.
The best way to do this, with the best chance of the desired outcome, is to use the more effective tactics available to you. The vast majority of the time, this means tanks tank, healers heal, and dps dps. But it ALSO means that healers dps, tanks and dps heal, and everyony uses all utility available to them as best as they can to reach that desired outcome.
The fact that some people misrepresent or misunderstand this does not change it. It is a fact. If you had time to do dps and didn’t do it, you contributed to the potential for failure in your group. If you’re uncomfortable with that, change it. If you’re not, that’s up to you. Just don’t pretend it isn’t a fact.
The mentality of healers doing “more deeps” is a representation of the reality of circumstances in high level content. Healing is a zero sum game; you have either enough healing, or you don’t. DPS is not a zero sum game; more dps always reduces your chance for failure. Any healer that meets the zero sum requirements of healing is ok from a healing perspective, and thus the only comparative point that matters is their dps.
This will never, and can never change. If a healer cannot meet the healing requirements of content that other healers can, that is a direct failure of balance. Mismatched dps performance matters, but there is a lot of leighway as to how much dps is required. Healing is not the same - if you fail to meet the healing requirements someone dies outright. If you fail to meet the dps requirements, everything might take longer and at the end of the run you don’t make the timer.
There is minimal healing to do in OW now, 9/10 games you will be out killing and out dmging at least 1 dps while also healing, and evading ever more powerful flankers. Much like wow they made tanks insanely powerful so either you instanuke the enemy team or your team evaporates around the tank and he gets burned down. One shots all around for skinnies, so there isnt any real chip dmg.
And this is fine, but we already know this isnt what is going to happen when this mentality becomes pervasive. It’s just like Raider io. Once its out there, if you dont have a high score you just dont get taken anymore after the initial gear up. Suddenly everyone wants already fully geared people from +10 and then +15 with ksm even if youre doing a sub +5. The post above this is a perfect example of what im talking about. Healers will abandon the class and possibly the game.
We dont expect people to min-max otherwise we expect healers to be doing MDI dmg. What we are asking is healers to not afk and do some form of dmg when there’s no real danger and dmg happening that the healer DO NOT NEED TO HEAL.
afk is being defined as a couple gcds in this thread which is obviously malicious.
and how do you feel if dps arent doing anything when their cds are down?
This can actually be summarized as people making PuGs for M+ being picky because they are trying to create a group with the highest odds for success. There are stakes involved in M+, and standards that reflect those stakes. It’s not a mandatory game mode.
Some healers will abandon the game, sure. Just like some tanks and DPS will when they face a form of resistance in the pugging world and decide M+/WoW/the role isn’t for them.
I’d define it as “functionally AFK,” which is an extended, noticeable period of time in which there has been no activity. It’s not malicious, it’s an assessment of how prolonged periods of inactivity are interpreted by the game (and possibly your group) as no different than if you were AFK. It’s not saying your intent was to be AFK, but the result wasn’t different.
A couple of GCDs means just under 4.5 seconds of doing nothing. There is absolutely no reason everyone shouldn’t be doing something every gcd in combat unless their class demands it.
this isnt even relatable to what were talking about, DPS either have something to dps or they dont.
So do healers.
/thread