Metas exist for a reason. When something is easy. Its meta. When something is easy and flat out better. Its meta. Mastery is a dump stat past 6k whether you like it or not.
It’s not always about being easy. Brew brings no utility to groups.
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Ring of peace is strong. Mystic touch is strong. Aoe taunt is strong. Stagger is better for healers than armor which is strong. Aoe aggro is strong. Strong short cds is strong. Clash is strong. Paralyze is strong sweeping kick is strong. To say monks bring nothing is coping .
not sure if you’re trolling or just being sarcastic
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We bring stuff but I don’t think its comparable.
When you bring significantly less to the m+ table the only way you can get a seat is to be an order of magnitudes tanker or be doing significantly more dps than the rest which is problematic. Warrior is far tanker than paladin but even that is still not enough, brew and prot warrior would need to be near immortal to compete.
Giving prot warrior and brew utility will lead to a healthier tank situation for m+.
A sap with a 30sec cd that breaks on a fart is strong?
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Mystic Touch is very much the antithesis of “strong.” Very few classes deal enough physical damage, including monks depending on hero talent choice, that it brings a significant damage buff. Frankly I’d rather they replace it with a nerfed version of Legacy of the White Tiger, reducing it to either 1% for all primary stats or just a crit buff, or some thematic damage proc similar to Bombardments, possibly reusing the Fallen Order visual or just adding crackling jade lightning-esque effects to attacks.
RoP is deceivingly strong, I agree. It’s a niche ability that requires some thought into using it, but it’s a very good ability.
Clash is relatively weak displacement. It’s Temu Death Grip on a significantly longer CD. I love the ability, but the current 1m CD is insanity and I suspect this was a PVP tuning change that corrupted PVE.
Leg Sweep is just another AOE stun that most tanks have access to (some of which are on shorter CDs).
As for “short strong CDs,” this is a thing most tanks have access to, and many have access to CDs that are either stronger or shorter, sometimes both. GoAK on Prot Pal is somewhere near an effect ~1.5m CD after CDR if I remember correctly. Shield Wall around 1-1.5m I believe with The Wall talented. In most builds Guardian has Barkskin at a 40% DR at 1m. Pair that with the fact most of our defensives are niche (Diffuse is magic-only, Zen Med requires precision and is a long CD), our only real strong, short defensive is Dampen, which is an average 30% DR on a 2m CD, much longer than comparable defensives of other tanks. Don’t get me wrong, I love dampen, but compared to other tanks we need more. Fort Brew is good, but it’s baseline CD even after factoring in Brew CDR is a tad too long IMO. I’d rather they cut the CD to 4m baseline for Brewmaster and replaced Expeditious with old Ironshell, giving us bonus dodge and armor. Gives us a choice between a stronger DR or more dodge for dungeons that are melee heavy or have force dodgeable tankbusters. That or a souped up Determination, removing it from the spec tree and adding to it/buffing it, would be a far more interesting choice node.
Furthermore, the issue is not that monks bring nothing, it’s that all 3 monk specs bring the same things. Brew brings nothing unique to the party, and when it is also one of the weakest M+ tanks currently, why take it in a pug over a meta tank? Community perception is everything. The game is not without Brewmaster party utility, but unfortunately it’s locked behind two PVP talents. (Guided Meditation and Avert Harm)
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This is flat out wrong and a lie. Mystic Touch is very relevant, just more so in a raid environment. Every class wants updates so they’re the mythic plus meta, which is funny because most people don’t even play at levels where class and spec even matter.
If you want to play at the tip of the spear in mythic plus, and you don’t want a dedicated group who doesn’t care about class, then you’re always going to need to play the meta. It’s as simple as that.
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Mystic Touch is relevant in raid only because it is free damage. From an objective point of view, very few classes deal enough purely physical damage for it to be considered a strong raid buff by any means. This is just an objective fact. The only classes that deal high phys damage are Warriors, Outlaw Rogue specifically, monks dependent on hero talent, and some hunters dependent on hero talent. For everyone else its largely just a buff to auto-attack damage and whatever floater abilities they might have that are physical. This is not opinionated.
Brewmaster does not need updates to be meta. I do not care if it is meta and, frankly, I would prefer it be upper middle of the pack than the meta tank. I will play it regardless and have friends that will play at the key level I’m at and will push regardless of the tier placement of the spec. Brewmaster needs updates because it has jarring weaknesses, has lost its niche of “4th DPS that holds aggro” that enabled it in DF, lacks party utility and has a fairly lacking spec tree.
Sure, if you ignore the fact that the best raid groups in the world bring a monk to account for it. I get you don’t like it, but doubling down on a lie isn’t a good look.
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Again, it’s brought because it’s free damage. Whether it’s a 0.5% raid wide damage increase or a 5% raid wide damage increase, it’s a damage increase, why would it be passed up at a level where every ounce of damage matters? It is fairly weak. Please cite numbers for it being strong and maybe I will believe you, because otherwise a handful of specs receiving a meaningful damage increase does not constitute as “strong” by any means.
In M+, it’ is abysmal where other raid buffs, even Battle Shout which is often touted as weak in smaller groups, have decent to high strength, Mystic Touch is objectively one of the worst. Battle Shout at least has the benefit of effect AP, which effects every melee and hunters. Mystic Touch being specifically physical damage in a game where even most melees deal large amounts of, if not primarily, magical damage, makes the buff weak.
I’m going to assume you don’t grasp the irony of asking me to cite numbers when you don’t provide a single number to substantiate it being weak. The simple fact is it’s brought. It provides enough of a bonus to justify the spot, otherwise these groups would just bring the better performing dps, tank, healer to make up the “paltry” difference it adds.
It wasn’t abysmal when dps war and enh were running in the meta. Again, it’s astounding in raid, it’s okay it isn’t meta in mythic plus. BrM is one of the best mythic raid tanks. Other than BDK, just go look how many other tanks cleared mythic raid in the last few weeks. It’s not even close.
Tanks, outside of the tip top, are fairly balanced. If you want to play at that level, get used to running multiple tanks. This is hardly new, and it’s never going to change. Pretending there is some mythical scenario where there isn’t ebs and flows is pointless. There are too many classes and specs for there not to be a meta without bastardizing every spec to a homogenous mess.
You clearly think your class is terrible. Truth is, monks are overpowereed when viable. You just need to “git gud”
Well it’s equivalent to doubling armor, it follows the same diminishing formula but it does seem confusing and misleading. It’d be clearer if we had a stagger rating value with a % tooltip
They could easily solve this with some little tweaks. Like change celestial fire talent to buff our breath dot massively. Change the RSK applies mastery talent to give us automatic counter attack on dodge. And buff anvil n stave to be better in AOE. Then bring back leech on fire dmg in some form
I also disagree still on mastery stacking, it caps out on value so quickly for brew. I’m actually a crit/haste stacking brew. So I’m not a meta follower and haste stacking gives me a lower tanking floor but WAAAY higher tanking ceiling with non stop stagger purify/freeze potential
I also think Mysthic touch is garbo compared with other dmg amp raid buff, specially because at the begging of the xpac they nerfed arcane intellect and chaos brand from 5% to 3% beceause they were too strong, it doesn’t look like blizz thinks mysthic touch is strong since it didn’t get nerfed
and yeah every top guild used to bring a BrM monk but not because they were the best tank or anthing, is most likely because mysthic touch is free damage why woulnd’t you bring a monk to a raid comp, and well let’s be honest monk as a class has 3 different specs that all of them are underperforming in the raid, which one is the one that hurt us the less ?, that’s right my man, the tank and that’s why they bring BrM
Even liquid used BrM and only on princess Ky’veza they used a WW becase they one tank that boss,
Feed any monk log into WoWanalyzer and it will approximate how much damage was attributed to Mystic Touch’s physical damage increase.
Pulling logs from some top rated, 100 parsing players.
M+:
Report wCqvK6PhDkJTBfnV
Mystic Touch attributed approximately 52k DPS, or 0.7% of overall damage.
Raid:
Report kGhRpWABmYqJCg7
Mystic Touch attributed approximately 269k DPS, or 1.2% of overall damage.
It’s numerically not strong, especially so in M+, which is what I specifically said. Regardless, my main point wasn’t about Mystic Touch either way and I’m not sure why you are dragging that away from it.
Furthermore I’m not sure why you are painting with broad strokes and acting as though I said or even implied there would ever be a world where a meta does not exist at the extreme high end, nor why you believe I support homogenizing every class.
If you’re going to reply again, please post a main so I can actually get an idea of how much you’re talking about, or find out if you’re just someone trolling on an alt.