Actually he was one of the few who didn’t. Durotan warned him against it at the last minute.
Edit: double-checking, he never actually got warned- he just figured out it was wrong on his own. Admittedly, I can see how from Alliance eyes this makes him worse- he was not demonically compromised and yet still ended up choosing to lead the Horde into the Second War.
Yes… As I have consistently outlined… I never deviated from the point. Doomhammer is an explicit example that orcs had complete agency while influenced by Demon Blood.
Except he never drank the demon blood, as Skarm points out.
So that’s not an example of free agency while under demonic influence.
Okay… and yet, as Warcheif of the Horde, and completely unrestricted in agency, he made the choice to conquer all of Azeroth… Which is exactly what the Demons wanted anyway.
He is a War Criminal without any Demonic influence, and yet he is exonerated in the Horde under Thrall.
Orgrim was probably in what he saw as an unwinnable position. The only sane orc at the head of a pack of bloodthirsty junkies, it was like riding a half-tame tiger: the slightest wrong move and he’d get ripped apart like everyone else. And for all that they were now corrupted, now almost literally addicted to destruction, they were still his people. He hated what they had become but he valued their lives over the lives of the other races. And they’d just burned down Stormwind but knew that enemy survivors had fled and would find allies to return and claim vengeance. He probably felt like Saurfang did after the burning of Teldrissal, “Now they will come for us all”. Only, IMPORTANTLY, without the benefit of 35 years of hindsight knowing exactly where this path would tread. Thus, the Second War. “As long as my people were killing non-orcs, they weren’t turning on each other”, in his mind. (“I’ve Gone Too Far”/“My Country, Right or Wrong” tropes)
Which kind of makes it funny that Chronicle clarifies that the invasion of Khaz Modan is the impetus for the Alliance to truly form.
EDIT: Irony, in a ‘hindsight is 20/20’ kind of way, not actually a point against Doomhammer.
When Kirk is negotiating with miners for badly needed dilithium, he was doing so for credits. In another episode as Kirk was contemplating another “Sure-Fail” scheme, Spock had calculated the cost of their training down to the last credit.
When David Gerrold turned in his first draft for “Troubles with Tribbles” his first choice of bad guy was a rival agribuisness combine. He was told to change it to Klingons because it was felt that his original script was serving up an anti-capitalist message and that was a big No-No.
Commerce isn’t necessarily capitalism. Fascists also have commerce. Capitalism is just economic system based upon unrestricted and voluntary free trade… Unless we know the Federation doesn’t regulate commerce, we can’t say it’s a capitalist system.
But the fascism mostly comes from the Next Generation, as I said before. Where it is said that the Federation has complete done without currency. Which was a long-term goal of historical Fascist regimes.
Fascism is the State in service to Capitalism. When the United States overthrew Latin American governments to secure better terms for Chiquita in the Banana Wars, (yes there was such a thing, google it.) that’s a textbook example of a fascist state in action.
No it’s not… It’s a strong State with heavy nationalism. Capitialism is contingent upon a weak state with no economic regulation, the exact opposite of fascism.
Heavy nationalism can go hand in hand with lack of regulation… The Gilded Age of American capitalism was marked by both. Both Italian and German fascism were periods of a strong nation states that gave carte blanche to the owning class… including allowing them to work slaves to death. and we’re talking 20th century Western Europe here.
Exactly… Both were avid socialist Governments with very strict Government regulated/Controlled economies. That is the furthest you can get from Capitalism.
NOT When the state makes policies that highly favor capitalism. which both Italy and Germany along with Britain and America have done. They are all nations with the combination of strong armies, strong laws, and a very permissive approach to capitalist operations.
Yes… even then… Because you can’t pass regulation in favor of Capitalism because Capitalism is contingent on being unregulated…
No it is not… the only important defining element of capitalism is private ownership of the means of production.
Or in Wiki speak.
an economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
Fascism just cares about maintaining its hierarchies. Any economic system (or philosophy) is useful, so long as it can be used to maintain the preferred hierarchy with the ingroup(s) at the top and the outgroup(s) at the bottom.
Trying to apply larger theories and philosophies to it is so frustrating/fruitless is because most fascists will literally say or believe just about anything to justify their preferred hierarchy. Capitalism/Socialism/Secularism/Religion/Science/Anti-intellectualism/whatever. It’s all a tool.
Capitalism is a political and economic policy to allow commerce to be commerce… the moment the state interferes with commerce, it is no longer capitalism, and therefore, the voluntary exchange of goods and services is Capitalism.
If you want to read the first few sentences of a Wiki article and pretend you are somehow educated on economic theory, then be my guest. But I am not going to take you seriously if you honestly believe Capitalism and National Socialism is in anyway intertwined.
I’d still disagree, the world is incredibly shallow and we fail to learn a great many things of many of the races we have introduced. The worldbuilding in wow is awful and the vast amounts of headcanon that have to be created by roleplayers about simple things due to the lack of information is good support of it.
Reminds me of the time when someone actually argued with me that night elves are actually polygamous normally just because their architecture implies being open about sexuality (I think they were putting the cart before the horse and looking for ways to justify their own polygamous leanings but that’s a story for another time)
That’s because the Horde doesn’t have Honor. Some members of it do, but the rank and file, and even some of the leadership, lack honor while parroting the phrase.
WoW is very good at using coding (like using things players are already generally familiar with as narrative shorthand- not computer coding), environment design, and characterization. It’s not nearly as good at exposition.
Like, in many other games, they’ll just tell you what a typical family in X culture looks like, but go into a city and you’ll never actually see a family unit. Mostly adult NPCs walking around and kids running around doing kid stuff.
In WoW, they won’t outright tell you what the dominant family structure/dynamic is, but you will see one or two instances of families or adults and children interacting out in the city/world and leave it to you to fill in the gaps based on context.
For instance, considering how many MMO worlds are ravaged by endless war and catastrophe, it is interesting that WoW is the only one with orphanages. I mean through dialogue, other games make it clear orphanages exist in their universes, bu wandering through a city and actually happening upon one is a whole other thing.