People who don’t communicate or.try to do too much aren’t “garbage.” Let’s not get insulting here.
Okay, so you don’t want to have a constructive conversation. Got it.
Let’s not go overboard here. This is meant to discuss in what ways we can help the community as a whole, not polarize it even more.
Yeah you’re not telling the full story. A lot of people are just bad. That’s the truth. Communication is one part. Being good at your class and mechanics is the rest of it.
I am lmfao. You just blew right past everything else I said. Probably because you have no argument. I get it.
We’ve gone full lobby game.
People with social anxiety or who are just shy would welcome being forced into a guild because it would make things easier for them; they won’t need to take that first difficult step on their own. Once inside they will be able to enjoy chatting with others as well as participating in guild activities. For other players who don’t care, their gameplay wouldn’t be affected at all since they will be free to come and go as they normally do.
Did not even read. You’re here to belittle and insult people instead of having a constructive conversation about the people who play this game.
If you want act like that, there are other threads for you. Your attitude isn’t appreciated nor does it breed good conversation.
Enjoy your night. I’ll be ignoring your toxicity now
The reason guild content is frustrating and unpopular is because the content is too heavily leaning into promoting guilds. People should want to be in a guild, not feel forced to be in a guild. When you force a guild on someone, they bring that whole guild down. The harder Blizz squeeze, the more guildies slip through their fingers, so to say. If WoW ever wants to hope of maybe someday recovering and growing, they need to get the boot off people’s necks. Your ask of “promoting” guild play is what they have always been doing, and is why we’re currently in this position. It is much, much, much nicer to be in and recruit for a guild in a game where being in a guild is for people who want to be in guilds.
You have no argument. Again, you only quoted bits and pieces of what I said. You ignored all my other points.
You just want an echo chamber.
Nothing promotes guilds, though. We promote group finder and we end up with people who feel guilds are just too restrictive.
I agree. Which is why I’m trying to find ways to make guilds feel like a positive experience and talk about how to change how people view them and perhaps give people something to think about when they’re in charge.
It’s why I brought up the possibility of having Blizz let guild leaders spend some time to talk about how they feel about the guild permissions and share their success in running guilds.
That is absolutely not what anyone with these anxieties want. I’m going to assume you’re trolling, as usual. But in case you’re not, please have a little respect for others who have such anxieties.
Use common sense. Do you think people with social anxiety enjoy having anxiety? They want to not have social anxiety. They want to join guilds but are too afraid of trying. They want to participate in group activities but their anxiety creates obstacles. If all toons were automatically placed into a starter guild, it would help them.
The content structure promotes guilds, the core of the game. People come to a guild because they are hoping the guild will get them aotc or vault rolls. I think the solution is to let pugs go wild. The only toxic pugs are the limited range of pugs that give some grindy checkbox reward that too many people feel obligated to chase. Just spread all that out over the whole content range and let people farm it at their own pace. All the pressure comes off the pugs, all the pressure comes off the guilds, everyone can play how they want, and no one has any specific motivation to be salty in their play time.
As garbage as Cata was, it at least had Have Group, Will Travel.
They’ve been doing that for 2 expansions now and it’s had the opposite effect.
BfA beta feedback: “This content is going to make pugging harder.”
Shadowlands beta feedback: “This content is going to make pugging harder.”
You: “It’s not working out, so let’s do more of the same and expect different results at some point in the future!”
How about Blizzard stop trying to turn the playerbase into test rats in a giant social engineering experiment?
So I guess you weren’t in one of those small friends and family type guilds that got wiped out in cata after ranking up your guild became mandatory. Social engineering in action.
This much is true. People like to take the easiest route, and that’s often jumping into random groups where they’re free to leave whenever they want with no long-term consequences, rather than putting in the effort to find a guild appropriate for the content they want to do and their own skill level that also clicks with with them socially.
And this is where we disagree. I understand this is basically the entire premise of the post. That’s fine. I’m not saying I’m right and you’re wrong, I’m saying I don’t agree with moving in this direction personally.
I view Guilds as primarily a social construct. If people get along and form or join a guild together to play together more conveniently in the future? Awesome.
If people specifically seek out Guilds for content purposes and to avoid the toxic pug scene? Also awesome.
It’s there. Guilds aren’t going away. They’re there for those who want more in-game social interaction and consistent players. The option is available for everyone who WANTS that. It’s just that many don’t actually want it, or at least don’t feel strongly enough about it to go out of their way for it.
I acknowledge that you’re suggesting supposedly smaller incentives than what we’ve seen in the past, and that’s fine, but frankly, I’m against any incentives. Even the minor boons Guilds currently have by default are more than they need.
Players should join and form Guilds only if they want to be in a Guild for one reason or another – NOT because the game is trying to force them into one with incentives that make opting out inefficient for your personal progression and playtime.
I feel the same way regarding Warmode, btw. The current incentives are BLATANTLY trying to encourage people to participate… when there is literally zero reason that should be necessary with how Sharding and CRZ work. As long as a single shard can be filled with Warmode players, the system is functioning. All incentives should be stripped from that to allow players to truly opt in only if they actually want to PvP, which I thought was the purpose in the first place… but Blizzard is obsessed with participation rates. (note: I’m talking the baseline stuff here, the incentives attempting to balance out faction ratios are more of a mixed bag to me and I have more thoughts on the matter but that’s a bit too off topic).
We have historical proof of it though. I did read through the thread and what is being proposed is great for those already lucky enough to be in cliques, but essentially tells those who aren’t as connected to “screw off”.
People like me would be forced to choose a guild we may or may not fit in with, endure whatever abuse comes our way, and have no recourse against it because what would be our other option? Remain guildless and suffer genuine setbacks in the game as a result?
Unless you are a licensed therapist or live with this on a day to day basis in their particular circumstance, you don’t knkw what they want or how they react or what forcing any one of them would do.
I am using logic. You are showing how much you do not understand these issues and people.
No one should be forcing anyone. And those with anxieties or mental disabilities are not front and center of this conversation.
Let’s be empathetic please.
But it really doesn’t. It forces groups, not guilds or communities. There is a difference.
Indeed I was. My guild only had about 15 people. 20 on a good day.
And that’s something I’d like to discuss as to the why. Maybe we can learn more and see what comes out of that.
It isn’t. So you skimmed and already had a predetermined mindset. I encourage you to look back through.
None of this makes any sense for what’s being talked about in here.
You want to incentivize guilds in a world where lots of folks have issues with guilds. What exactly am I missing?
I want to talk about how we can support and promote them. And what, if anything, Blizz can do with that, as well.
Had you read, you’ll notice I said that it could be anything to help: more discussions between guild leaders and others to explain how they run things successfully; fixing the guild permissions that Blizz still has left by the wayside; learning what is and isn’t acceptable to the community.
It doesn’t need to be perks. There are other ways to give incentive— including simply talking and adding more support for guild recruitment in better ways.
This is everything being talked about. Try to understand this.
Read. The. Thread.
I remember when Ion & Lore did one of their old joint video things, where they both said they can’t imagine why anyone WOULDN’T play WoW with war mode on.
There’s just a tiny number of people who actually want to run around flagged for the funzies, unfortunately I guess it includes a lot of people at Blizzard, so they stack the deck to try and bribe people to play the game “their way”.
Nothing new about this, it’s the same reason they (a) tried to bribe people to play 25-man over 10-man by adding Thunderforging, and (b) when that failed to work, just removed 10-man entirely.
I’m not reading all the responses. I’m in agreement with your overall sentiment. I’m in a good guild now. They do things outside of WoW, like we have a FFXIV guild and even a weekly movie night. I like their atmosphere and their vibe. Nothing is required of us other than to have a good time.
I wish Blizzard did more to promote being in a guild like they used to. All my favorite WoW moments came from being in a guild. Keys, raiding, general tom foolery, all things made better by being around a group of people who just want to play the same game.